Author Topic: Whistle blowing on Global Warming  (Read 117435 times)

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #495 on: December 13, 2009, 12:10:59 AM »
Taking a small section of the world you can take and average temperatures over many different periods and guess what? The anomalies disappear.

Central England Average Temperatures (°C)
                    JAN     FEB  MAR  APR  MAY  JUN    JUL  AUG   SEP  OCT  NOV    DEC  Annual Avg
1961 to 1990    3.8  3.8   5.7   7.9  11.2  14.2  16.1  15.8  13.6  10.6   6.6   4.7        9.5
1880 to 2004    3.8  4.1   5.7   8.0  11.3  14.2  16.1  15.7  13.5  10.0   6.5   4.5        9.5
1659 to 2005    3.2  3.8   5.3   7.9  11.2  14.3  16.0  15.6  13.3   9.7    6.0   4.1        9.2
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Offline Kev367th

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #496 on: December 13, 2009, 08:17:30 AM »
Seriously...when all you can manage are attacks on me, and no meaningful contribution nor even an attempt to refute my post....you've already lost.


I do agree with Moray37 on this, although we are on opposite sides reverting to personal insults gets us nowhere.

I just wish there was unadulterated raw data available so that we could see what the 'changes' are that are made to it.

Even GISS has started massaging data - http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/11/giss-raw-station-data-before-and-after/

Buoys - Were orignally showning a temperature decrease, but after deciding the earlier buoys were reading too high and the later buoys too low and, 'adjusting' the data, they now also show a warming (surprise)

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Offline bj229r

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #497 on: December 13, 2009, 09:02:11 AM »
Alas, in many cases (CRU at the forefront) the original ANALog data covering 150 years, was THROWN away, allegedly in the 80's whilst they were moving, in order to 'save space' Now we have naught but their word, which is obviously in question.

Quote
It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation....

In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”


The only reason we even know about this is Freedom Of Information requests.
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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #498 on: December 13, 2009, 01:17:56 PM »
Seriously...when all you can manage are attacks on me, and no meaningful contribution nor even an attempt to refute my post....you've already lost.


Why do I continually try to have debates with troglodytes?  


Offline Chalenge

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #499 on: December 13, 2009, 02:15:20 PM »
Oh the humanity!  :D
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #500 on: December 13, 2009, 04:14:46 PM »
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Offline sluggish

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #501 on: December 13, 2009, 05:23:23 PM »

Offline MORAY37

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #502 on: December 13, 2009, 06:56:13 PM »
Just so I know I'm understanding the chart correctly... it's pointing out average temperatures for those areas that are anomalies compared to the average temperature from 1971-2000? Or the entire century?

All the charts NOAA puts out there are referenced in two distinct ways.  The actual chart itself is contextually referenced to a period of ~20 years (1971-2000) to determine a baseline.  The reason this is done is to establish a trend line, to be able to show patterns from future observations. (Deeper historical data sample streams (>40 years and <300) are fraught with issues, and you can't take ice cores from everywhere on the earth) Many were against this particular methodology, because it artificially undercut any "trend line positive warming" because it included the period of 1992-1999, during which rapid intensification of the the temperature anomalies was noted.  Many out there will understand that the inclusion of the 1992-2000 period will "shift baselines" due to the inclusion of the especially high 1997-1998-1999 period.  The determination made was to use that 1971-2000 time period as a marker to establish a baseline from, because the data was uncorrupted by sampling variance in the past.  There are quite a few that think NOAA is even deliberately undercutting its own data by doing this, as it includes those incredibly scattered high readings, especially from '98 and '99.

Secondarily, the explanations are tied back into historical observations.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #503 on: December 13, 2009, 06:59:37 PM »



Perhaps you might look into the previous 4 posts he put up there. And also what followed. 

 I might ask, did you have to look up troglodyte?  We both know you did.  :aok
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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #504 on: December 13, 2009, 07:17:10 PM »
Perhaps you might look into the previous 4 posts he put up there. And also what followed. 

 I might ask, did you have to look up troglodyte?  We both know you did.  :aok

 :rofl  Typical elitist attitude that gets you no respect.  :aok

You claim a moral place high above others for not insulting them...forgetting that you had done the same only days before.   That is all I pointed out.  Then you attack my intelligence.

At least I know criticism directed at you won't hurt you.  You are incapable of even comprehending how peons such as I could even dare.

Offline MORAY37

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #505 on: December 13, 2009, 11:09:02 PM »
:rofl  Typical elitist attitude that gets you no respect.  :aok

You claim a moral place high above others for not insulting them...forgetting that you had done the same only days before.   That is all I pointed out.  Then you attack my intelligence.

At least I know criticism directed at you won't hurt you.  You are incapable of even comprehending how peons such as I could even dare.

Some people can't take a little ribbing.  You're obviously one of em.  I'm not claiming, nor do I wish to claim a "moral high ground". Also, I'm not looking for internet "respect".... I really don't care. I have a rich, full life, that needs no reassurance from the internet. I will continue to respond with facts, and I will defend myself from attacks directed at me.  If you don't like it, tough.  Buy a helmet.

 I responded to repeated attacks directed at me.  You, like many others, tend to be incapable of doing anything but demeaning anyone who doesn't agree with your myopic views of the world.  You also seem to have absolutely nothing better to do than to follow me around this BBS, like three or four others.


If you think that was a personal attack....this may be found at your local pharmacy.



Thank you for participating.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 11:12:46 PM by MORAY37 »
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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #506 on: December 13, 2009, 11:43:57 PM »
Some people can't take a little ribbing.  You're obviously one of em.  I'm not claiming, nor do I wish to claim a "moral high ground". Also, I'm not looking for internet "respect".... I really don't care. I have a rich, full life, that needs no reassurance from the internet. I will continue to respond with facts, and I will defend myself from attacks directed at me.  If you don't like it, tough.  Buy a helmet.

 I responded to repeated attacks directed at me.  You, like many others, tend to be incapable of doing anything but demeaning anyone who doesn't agree with your myopic views of the world.  You also seem to have absolutely nothing better to do than to follow me around this BBS, like three or four others.


If you think that was a personal attack....this may be found at your local pharmacy.

(Image removed from quote.)

Thank you for participating.


Like I said, you reek of elitism.  Add hypocrite as well.   You reject personal attacks as showing signs of loss when that is what you had previously resorted to.  That is all I have pointed out.  Your responses only magnify your high opinion of yourself and enormous disdain for all who would be so bold as to disagree.



Offline Angus

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #507 on: December 14, 2009, 03:20:02 AM »
Here is a cookie for you. From Have's link:

The Sceptic:
Instruments show there has been some warming of the Earth's surface since 1979, but the actual value is subject to large errors. Most long-term data comes from surface weather stations. Many of these are in urban centres which have expanded in both size and energy use. When these stations observe a temperature rise, they are simply measuring the "urban heat island effect". In addition, coverage is patchy, with some regions of the world almost devoid of instruments. Data going back further than a century or two is derived from "proxy" indicators such as tree-rings and stalactites which, again, are subject to large errors.

Answer:
"Warming is unequivocal. Weather stations, ocean measurements, decreases in snow cover, reductions in Arctic sea ice, longer growing seasons, balloon measurements, boreholes and satellites all show results consistent with the surface record of warming. The urban heat island effect is real but small; and it has been studied and corrected for. Analyses by Nasa for example use only rural stations to calculate trends. Recently, work has shown that if you analyse long-term global temperature rise for windy days and calm days separately, there is no difference. If the urban heat island effect were large, you would expect to see a bigger trend for calm days when more of the heat stays in the city. Furthermore, the pattern of warming globally doesn't resemble the pattern of urbanisation, with the greatest warming seen in the Arctic and northern high latitudes. Globally, there is a warming trend of about 0.8C since 1900, more than half of which has occurred since 1979. "
One can easily add to this.
1- Moving migrations currently happening. Be it birds, insects, fish or plants
2- Changes in agriculture, where plants for warmer climate can suddenly be grown successfully in what were cooler regions.
3- Tree rings. Yes, they were mentioned, but going back for quite some time, they give an interesting datapool.
4- Seeds. If you excavate some good deep soil, it is possible to determine the flora in ancient times.
5- History. One of the reasons we know that much about both the medieval warming period, and the little Ice age. In my area the MWP is supported with History, archeological remains, and seeds.
6- Glacial scratches and Glacial landscaping. It does not have to be entire valleys, but since glaciers advance and as mostly today, - retreat, - this helps to tell where the glaciers were at best in ancient (but historic) times.

Anyway, all point the finger more or less in the same direction. A warming trend. BTW, do not confuse climate with weather, - if I recall right, the climate is measured in a min. 30 years span.
Have a nice day ;)
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #508 on: December 14, 2009, 03:38:06 AM »
My favorite being the Troglodytes troglodytes or uncommonly the Troglodytes troglodaes...

No I think you meant the slang definition the way you used it. Calling someone a small brown wren is just not done.  :D
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Offline Angus

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #509 on: December 14, 2009, 05:28:55 AM »
Like I said, you reek of elitism.  Add hypocrite as well.   You reject personal attacks as showing signs of loss when that is what you had previously resorted to.  That is all I have pointed out.  Your responses only magnify your high opinion of yourself and enormous disdain for all who would be so bold as to disagree.


(Image removed from quote.)

I also hate it when the colour blind tell me there isn't green or red.....
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)