Author Topic: Whistle blowing on Global Warming  (Read 117640 times)

Offline FYB

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #690 on: December 24, 2009, 02:11:15 PM »
Yes, and it irks me.  I don't understand where you are going with that.  Of course I can't live in the woods! I'm not even grown up!

 :cheers:
-Penguin
We've noticed. Thanks for pointing it out though, for those who can't really understand your posts.
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Offline Penguin

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #691 on: December 24, 2009, 02:24:25 PM »
What do you mean by that?  Is my grammar or spelling off?  Or are my ideas strange? 

(just heard about legoman, I hope that I'm not breaking any rules)

And about rule number 6, why aren't the wednsday babe bringers banned?  :headscratch: 

-Penguin

Offline RTHolmes

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #692 on: December 24, 2009, 02:28:00 PM »
You can't prove anything with a theory.

Try again.

if people submit papers to you for marking then you already know that "proof" has a range of meanings depending on the context (eg. formal logic vs the courtroom.) its commonly used in place of "evidence", as above.

relax penguin, someone here is being "obtuse", but it isnt you :)
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #693 on: December 24, 2009, 02:44:14 PM »
You know how the rocks at the bottom of stream beds are so smooth?  That's because of erosion.  Water works mouch more quickly than air, but the smooth tops of the Appalchian Mountain Range prove my point.  The dust from all of those millions of years of erosion caused the ground level to rise.

That's the same reason why we have to dig up fossils and other such things.  No, they weren't dinosaur guts, they were the remains of plankton, swamps and marshes (they last much, much, much longer).  That's how we get the big pockets of subterranean oil today.

Glad to tell someone about geology  :cheers:

-Penguin

Your geology is as flawed as your thoughts on MMGW.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #694 on: December 24, 2009, 03:49:52 PM »
We've noticed. Thanks for pointing it out though, for those who can't really understand your posts.

His posts have been clear and concise. Whether you can understand them, well, I can't comment.  Perhaps you might think of taking some classes at the local community college dealing with critical thinking in some format.  This isn't a cut on you, merely a suggestion. 

The youngster's posts have been even tempered and solidly grounded in logic, not some manner of pseudo scientific dogma others have fostered.  It's a shame it is wasted on the perennially clueless in this format.  He has weathered repeated personal attacks on his posts, and rebutted only with factual content.

Your issue is obviously with the scientific community, not with an admitted juvenile who is clearly more in tune with his faculties than those which you possess.  If you wish to debate with someone in that context, PM me anytime.  I've taught more to less.

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Offline CAP1

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #695 on: December 24, 2009, 03:50:34 PM »
Yes, and it irks me.  I don't understand where you are going with that.  Of course I can't live in the woods!  I'm not even grown up!

 :cheers:
-Penguin

whelp. you said earlier, that we should all stop using all "fossil" fuels.

 in my mind, that makes you like a guy that brags about being a vegitarian. he doesn't eat meat, because he thinks animals shouldn't be killed for food.
 yet he's wearing leather shoes, driving a car with leather interior, and more than likely bought his wife a fur coat.

 
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #696 on: December 24, 2009, 03:52:25 PM »
What do you mean by that?  Is my grammar or spelling off?  Or are my ideas strange? 

(just heard about legoman, I hope that I'm not breaking any rules)

And about rule number 6, why aren't the wednsday babe bringers banned?  :headscratch: 

-Penguin

no, your ideas aren't strange. but you are very closed minded. you seem to refuse to believe there are other possibilities.

 like i said.........i remember in 73 when they stirred up this same poop, saying we were having a shortage, we're running outta oil, the sky is falling, etc.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #697 on: December 24, 2009, 03:54:46 PM »
His posts have been clear and concise. Whether you can understand them, well, I can't comment.  Perhaps you might think of taking some classes at the local community college dealing with critical thinking in some format.  This isn't a cut on you, merely a suggestion. 

The youngster's posts have been even tempered and solidly grounded in logic, not some manner of pseudo scientific dogma others have fostered.  It's a shame it is wasted on the perennially clueless in this format.  He has weathered repeated personal attacks on his posts, and rebutted only with factual content.

Your issue is obviously with the scientific community, not with an admitted juvenile who is clearly more in tune with his faculties than those which you possess.  If you wish to debate with someone in that context, PM me anytime.  I've taught more to less.



well....ya......'specially when they've been proven to be lying.....by their own pen so to speak.

even you contradicted yourself in this very thread.


read back before ya ask.  :aok
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #698 on: December 24, 2009, 04:12:59 PM »
if people submit papers to you for marking then you already know that "proof" has a range of meanings depending on the context (eg. formal logic vs the courtroom.) its commonly used in place of "evidence", as above.

relax penguin, someone here is being "obtuse", but it isnt you :)

Scientific proof, the context of this discussion, is based upon scientific method.

We are not talking about civil suits where a preponderance of evidence may be adequate or even reasonable doubt.

The reason the scientific study of so called fossil fuels is considered theory is that there is no way to characterize upon observation. Thus, any hypothesis is based upon assumption. One cannot support the hypothesis with experiment due to not having a natural control. Therefore, both ends of the linear method are open and cannot be accredited as more than simple theory. Even if there exists strong pragmatic evidence for the theory, it cannot be considered as fact. Moreover, the science of how fossil fuel deposits came to exist is ever evolving and no theory has or will remain unchanged or unchallenged.

You cannot prove out a concept with theory. Write a paper and submit it for peer review while doing so, and it would be headed straight for the shredder.  

Penguin offered a theory as proof of scientific fact. I wanted him to reconsider his statement and try presenting his argument again, characterizing in the proper context.


My regards,

Widewing

(edited for typo)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 04:29:23 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Widewing

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #699 on: December 24, 2009, 04:15:55 PM »
We've noticed. Thanks for pointing it out though, for those who can't really understand your posts.

I understand his posts... Penguin writes clearly. He uses good sentence structure and his grammar is adequate. Considering that he's a school kid, he expresses himself very well, indeed.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Penguin

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #700 on: December 24, 2009, 10:29:57 PM »
So then, what is the proper format?  I know not of a better way in which to present my ideas, so do enlighten me. 

You have a point about my previous statement, but that clause is incomplete.  It should have said:

We should stop using fossil fuels as fuel, as soon as we can afford to do so.

I apologize for my post error.  Yet you never have seemed to have your own point:

Are you saying that we will never run out of oil due to it essentially magically pouring out of the ground?
And that the biomass from plankton and swamps never contributed to the formation of oil wells?

What I see in your argument is a false dichotomy:

Since we have evidence pointing to cause A, it cannot be cause B.

Although that may seem like logic, look closely and you will notice that there is no evidence pointing to how A and B are mutually exclusive.  And the way you are describing oil formation is only going to give us a few hundred more years.  In the end, we will run out of oil if we keep on burning it.

And as you said, my computer is made from oil products, and I do not dispute it.  What I am pointing out, is that we are wasting a precious resource that we could use for so many other things.  What we are doing is essentially taking gold and burning it.

This is my point.  This is what I am trying to say.  Using fossil fuels as material is fine, but why burn something that you can:

a.) recycle
and
b.) puts out a ton of toxic gas

The strategy you are pointing out seems to be a lose-lose, in which we have no oil in the end (there can't be an unlimited supply) and we have choked ourselves with toxic gas.  What you are envisioning simply isn't sustainable. 


-Penguin

P.S. I can't make this any better than it is.  If the debate is on the format of my posts, simply say so.   


Offline CAP1

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #701 on: December 24, 2009, 11:16:35 PM »
So then, what is the proper format?  I know not of a better way in which to present my ideas, so do enlighten me. 

You have a point about my previous statement, but that clause is incomplete.  It should have said:

We should stop using fossil fuels as fuel, as soon as we can afford to do so.

I apologize for my post error.  Yet you never have seemed to have your own point:

Are you saying that we will never run out of oil due to it essentially magically pouring out of the ground?
And that the biomass from plankton and swamps never contributed to the formation of oil wells?

What I see in your argument is a false dichotomy:

Since we have evidence pointing to cause A, it cannot be cause B.

Although that may seem like logic, look closely and you will notice that there is no evidence pointing to how A and B are mutually exclusive.  And the way you are describing oil formation is only going to give us a few hundred more years.  In the end, we will run out of oil if we keep on burning it.

And as you said, my computer is made from oil products, and I do not dispute it.  What I am pointing out, is that we are wasting a precious resource that we could use for so many other things.  What we are doing is essentially taking gold and burning it.

This is my point.  This is what I am trying to say.  Using fossil fuels as material is fine, but why burn something that you can:

a.) recycle
and
b.) puts out a ton of toxic gas

The strategy you are pointing out seems to be a lose-lose, in which we have no oil in the end (there can't be an unlimited supply) and we have choked ourselves with toxic gas.  What you are envisioning simply isn't sustainable. 


-Penguin

P.S. I can't make this any better than it is.  If the debate is on the format of my posts, simply say so.   



i've not seen any problems with your posts. you get your thoughts across very well.

 to my eye, you just seem fairly well brainwashed(not meant as an insult)

like someone else said.....it's produced by the process of the earth doing what she does. abiatic" i think it was called?

 try to think of your body. it makes blood and bone, right? i might be using a bad analogy, but sometimes i have trouble getting my thoughts out of my head.(still at 47)

 if you read in one of those links, when they found oil in the dried up wells, they tested it. it was significantly younger than the oil they had previously gotten from that well. and it was filling from the bottom.

 the worst that may happen, is that we could use it faster than it can be regenerated.

 but, not only our oil....but natural gas and coal come from the same process. coal burns much dirtier than anything.

 in the long run, some form of hydrogen would(in my opinion) be the best alternative to burning oil.

 electricity will still burn oil, unless we have other ways of generating electricity...
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #702 on: December 24, 2009, 11:23:44 PM »
Abiogenic I believe although I think the process has been duplicated through an enzymatic process closely resembling jungle rot I dont believe anyone has ever made the 'fossil fuel' argument work chemically.
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #703 on: December 25, 2009, 12:55:44 AM »
Abiotic.

It's a few pages back.  Five seconds on Google confirmed it.  Kind of like an open-book test.

It's an interesting theory; I wonder if it'll prove correct.

MtnMan

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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Whistle blowing on Global Warming
« Reply #704 on: December 25, 2009, 02:11:53 AM »
You also had the ability to look up abiogenic and screwed the pooch.  :D
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