Whistle blowing on Global Warming

[CAP1]

When air masses warm they rise and expand, cool they sink and contract.  

ok, i'll rephrase......the sun doesn't cause the horizontal movement of air masses, which is what will eventually be what causes the climate in one area or another to change.

[MORAY37]

ok, i'll rephrase......the sun doesn't cause the horizontal movement of air masses, which is what will eventually be what causes the climate in one area or another to change.

That statement is completely illogical.  

Energy causes change.  Energy in, or energy out.

 Weather is affected by the earth's rotation.  Climate is affected by the total energy within the system.

[Penguin]

Check plus Moray!

You're right, we do have most of our stuff done by the sun, and if it was at a minimum, things will get a whole lot hotter!



 

To CAP1;

Anyway, the smog I was talking about was brown, and we don't dump turds out into the street anymore.  You've proved nothing except it makes the air nasty if you put poop out in the sun! 

-Penguin

[CAP1]

Check plus Moray!

You're right, we do have most of our stuff done by the sun, and if it was at a minimum, things will get a whole lot hotter!

(Image removed from quote.)

 

To CAP1;

Anyway, the smog I was talking about was brown, and we don't dump turds out into the street anymore.  You've proved nothing except it makes the air nasty if you put poop out in the sun! 

-Penguin

i never said anything about dumping turds.

[CAP1]

That statement is completely illogical.  

Energy causes change.  Energy in, or energy out.

 Weather is affected by the earth's rotation.  Climate is affected by the total energy within the system.

and the energy in the system comes from the sun.


so now, we're back to the sun.........yet again.

[Penguin]

Whoops! That should have been at saggs! Sorry!!

CAP, yes it is powered by the sun.  But that isn't the only factor.  The tilt, the rotation, the distance, all play into it.  The moon also affects how warm we get (holds tilt in place). 

One last thing, somebody said that the number of people on AGW those scientists represented, please show me the raw data (note the irony).

-Penguin

[CAP1]

Whoops! That should have been at saggs!!!!

-Penguin

yep.

point is there was smog before there were cars.

airflow does indeed play an important roll in things such as that. good airflow, decent breeze, smog will be cleared out. no breeze, no airflow, smog hangs.

[Penguin]

Well except for the part where you make more.  The smog doesn't just dissapear either, it goes up, up, into the stratosphere, messing with our climate!

-Penguin

[CAP1]

Whoops! That should have been at saggs! Sorry!!

CAP, yes it is powered by the sun.  But that isn't the only factor.  The tilt, the rotation, the distance, all play into it.  The moon also affects how warm we get (holds tilt in place). 

One last thing, somebody said that the number of people on AGW those scientists represented, please show me the raw data (note the irony).

-Penguin

yes, as i've stated previouslyin this very thread. all of those are still not man made though.

Well except for the part where you make more.  The smog doesn't just dissapear either, it goes up, up, into the stratosphere, messing with our climate!

-Penguin

if it rises into the atmosphere, what exactly holds it in? it would seem to me, that it could/would radiate out.
 that which stays down at the surface will be diluted as it's spread out, and eventually "scrubbed"

 now don't take this as me saying it's fine to keep polluting........but then you're trying to get back to that again.

 

[MORAY37]

and the energy in the system comes from the sun.


so now, we're back to the sun.........yet again.

CAP, it would be insanely stupid for me to say that the only source of energy into the earth system has no effect on temperature and climate.  Of course it does.  Every drop of the energy budget for life and weather on this planet basically originates 93 million miles away.

But, solar effect is on the down trend, due to our position in orbital mechanics.  We're actually about 3/4 of a million miles further from the sun as we were 2000 years ago.  Solar radiance and luminance has maintained itself for the past 2000 years.( the amount of energy given off by the sun)  Therefore, we should not be warming in any regions.

[MORAY37]

Well except for the part where you make more.  The smog doesn't just dissapear either, it goes up, up, into the stratosphere, messing with our climate!

-Penguin

Penguin this statement is very obtuse, misleading, and most importantly, wrong.  Be very careful where you go when making broadly based statement without any data to back it up.  

In order to go up into the stratosphere, a particle must be lighter than the air surrounding it.  This is why "smog" is contained in lower tropospheric regions.  It is heavier than the air molecules above it.

This pollution battle you are waging isn't going to get you anywhere within the context of this debate, and is easily defeated.

[MORAY37]

yep.

point is there was smog before there were cars.

airflow does indeed play an important roll in things such as that. good airflow, decent breeze, smog will be cleared out. no breeze, no airflow, smog hangs.

That is a very tricky statement CAP.  The smog may be cleared out.... but it is simply dissipating out of a concentration gradient, not disappearing into thin air.  It is still there, just spread out or moved somewhere else until it breaks down.

[Ripsnort]

[CAP1]

CAP, it would be insanely stupid for me to say that the only source of energy into the earth system has no effect on temperature and climate.  Of course it does.  Every drop of the energy budget for life and weather on this planet basically originates 93 million miles away.

But, solar effect is on the down trend, due to our position in orbital mechanics.  We're actually about 3/4 of a million miles further from the sun as we were 2000 years ago.  Solar radiance and luminance has maintained itself for the past 2000 years.( the amount of energy given off by the sun)  Therefore, we should not be warming in any regions.

you say 3/4 of a million miles like it is significant. it is nothing in the grand scheme. 3/4 of a million.......750,000, right? compared to 93 million?
 i seriously doubt(although i could be wrong) that 750k is enough to significantly effect us.

 as for any perceived warming.........radiant heat, that the earth has been storing...or rather retaining for however long.....

 on top of that, there is still no conclusive proof that the planet is warming.

[Motherland]

you say 3/4 of a million miles like it is significant. it is nothing in the grand scheme.

Neither is 2000 years