Whistle blowing on Global Warming

[Sonicblu]

This is just going round and around.  It really isn't worth going about anymore....every point is a point of contention and there isn't a single person here even remotely skeptical, besides perhaps Anax and CAP..... your minds are made up and aren't open to the simplest of explanations, even the basic analysis of data is misunderstood and questioned. You call yourselves skeptical.... but many of you have made up your minds by being told by Fox News what is going on.  I haven't seen a single rebuttal worth arguing over yet...just posting of news stories...if anyone even bothers to do even that.

There is absolutely no ability to find any perspective of common ground from which to even frame a debate.

 It just isn't worth the time I've spent on it.  I've enjoyed the polite debate with some, but I'm really tired of the personal vendettas on here. When in the past two pages I've been called stupid, a tool, had my intelligence questioned.....etc etc....


 Enjoy the remainder of the thread.  I'm out.  When it ceases to be fun, there's no point in continuing.  I'll just end up PNG'd.

(Image removed from quote.)
I'm out.

Talk about framing the debate insnt this called and ad homine argument or something like that.

I tried and cant even get a decent response on the so called "facts"

"Ocean: A body of water occupying 2/3 of a world made for man...who has no gills."
-Ambrose Bierce

This might be sattirical but isnt even remotely inteligent. Hmm evo.......................... .......lution didnt produce gills either.

"Atmosphere: A body of air occupying 100% of the earths surface made for man.......who has lungs"
Daniel Struse

[Motherland]

This might be sattirical but isnt even remotely inteligent. Hmm evo.......................... .......lution didnt produce gills either.

 




First even...

[Anaxogoras]

Who the heck is Daniel Struse?

[Sonicblu]

Stick to the context. the quote isnt about fish. Its about man. My comment regarding man. but you already knew that.  Or did you not really think through it on a logical level.

It great how you take a quote out of context... and try to make it something different.

 

[FTJR]

Mt Everest yesterday (7th Feb), not much snow for the winter.

[batch]

all the snow is in Washington DC............ it cant be everywhere at once

[SirFrancis]

Mt Everest yesterday (7th Feb), not much snow for the winter.

xx

everest 1924





but when look down from a few kilometers you can also see this (picture taken 1/21/2010)


so, i guess it depends on the photographers position to determine how much snow is in the Himalaya 

Regards
SF

[Penguin]

Hey CAP!

Have you noticed that our points aren't mutually exclusive?

The earth could have been on the start of a natural uptrend, and man just pushed it up enough that it wreaked havoc on the ecosystem.

~or~

Man was plugging way at the thermostat, and the earth pushed it up for a while, and then it was man alone again

~or~

Man was plugging away, and now he's fighting a cooling trend, trying every method to warm us up

~or even~

Earth was doing it, and then man helped, then stopped, and the earth is alone again

See, it isn't black 'n white.  There's more gray out there than you can shake a stick at!  This is just to show that one of us being right, doesn't mean that the other is wrong. (1+1=2 doesn't preclude .5+1.5=2)  If we tried that approach, it would be a special case of the fallacy of a false dichotomy.

Or, the way mom tells me, don't be so rigid, by flexible and look at the in-between.

To sum it up, we each have our hypothesis's, and we all have a lot of work to do.  Our hypthesis's aren't mutally exclusive, so one of us being right doesn't mean that the other is wrong.  Man could or couldn't be involved, and the earth might have a role too.  So before the mudlslinging begins again, let's at least agree that our two sides don't have the only two options.  In a few words;

Relax,
have fun,
it's debate, not war
that's what Aces High is for



-Penguin

[Motherland]

Stick to the context. the quote isnt about fish. Its about man. My comment regarding man. but you already knew that.  Or did you not really think through it on a logical level.

It great how you take a quote out of context... and try to make it something different.

 

I took it the way I did because the thought that an organism optimized to live in the plains & rainforests of Africa should develop gills is much more stupid than a simple mixup like the way I took it...

[cpxxx]

For Moray, I know you must dip in occasionally and for others. This to me is the heart of the problem. Scientists involved have failed to maintain the objective standards that are absolutely essential in science. I have long believed that there is no  fraud or conspiracy merely the usual human factors. I don't believe in the fraud or the conspiracy version. These people genuinely believed in what they were doing. The problem was that they lost sight of their own responsibilities and forgot what it means to be a scientist.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/09/climategate-plausibility-and-the-blogosphere-in-the-post-normal-age/#more-16262

[Angus]

Well, here is the crude data. Sattelite readout, and now awaits the work of comparing it with ground measurements.
Belive it or not, but the measurements are getting better every year. In this case the measurements are for global temperatures on an months scale, not local weather for a day. In this case, the "cold" January.


The calculated outcome is...warm. The sun is a bit low, but we have a small Nino which makes it up.

[oakranger]

I hope you all realized that the warming and cooling of the earth is a natural Phenomenon.  There are these micro fluctuation occurring all the time.  It just like year to year weather in one area.  You have a wet years, drought years, hot years and cool years/  The best way to tell this is one of two ways; 1) study the rings of trees that are over 500 years old, 2) go to the polar caps and collect samples of the ice at certain depth.  In both cases we can study the carbon levels which tells us a lot of what is going on. 
 

[CAP1]

Well, here is the crude data. Sattelite readout, and now awaits the work of comparing it with ground measurements.
Belive it or not, but the measurements are getting better every year. In this case the measurements are for global temperatures on an months scale, not local weather for a day. In this case, the "cold" January.
(Image removed from quote.)

The calculated outcome is...warm. The sun is a bit low, but we have a small Nino which makes it up.

is that figure supposed to be saying that this past jan. was warmer than it has been in the past?

[Angus]

Globally Yes. In your back yard maybe not. Look at the chart.
Seriously, one of the predictions of the possible consequences of GW is more violent and impredictable weather. Tat means weather, not climate.
And Oakranger: It was a good point on the tree rings. FYI, the oldest still living tree is about 9.000 years old. It sort of marks the end of the last ice-age. Anyway, there are fossilized trees as well, so the tree-ring story is quite a batch!

[CAP1]

Globally Yes. In your back yard maybe not. Look at the chart.
Seriously, one of the predictions of the possible consequences of GW is more violent and impredictable weather. Tat means weather, not climate.
And Oakranger: It was a good point on the tree rings. FYI, the oldest still living tree is about 9.000 years old. It sort of marks the end of the last ice-age. Anyway, there are fossilized trees as well, so the tree-ring story is quite a batch!

the thing i find odd about that, is that it's not just in my back yard that it's cold. it's being reported as cold all over the place.

 when i look at weather, i'm not seeing anything any less predictable than normal either,.