Whistle blowing on Global Warming

[Kev367th]

Way way back in 1988 Hansen (GISS) used their computer models to predict what the global anomoly would be up to 2010.

The results contained 3 predictions, scenarios A, B and C.


Scenario C looks pretty close doesn't it?
However - Scenario C was based on CO2 emissions being frozen at 1988 levels! Where we should be is scenario A, i.e. continuously increasing CO2 levels.
Scenario C is the most referred to by AGW proponents as proof that Hansen 'got it right', they just neglect or don't know about what scenario C was based on (CO2 emissions freeze in 1988).

So scenario C is wrong, and thats the closest to reality.
Scenario A is wrong, thats were we should be now.
Scenario B was based on freezing CO2 in 2000, but thats wrong also.

Something up with the models/programming perhaps?

[Angus]

Why is this like pulling teeth?

Does the graph or does the graph not accurately represent your personal experience with your local climate?

IT DOES.

Simple enough?

[Angus]

I notice that this chart is bullhockey. It shows the NE US as being warmer than normal... Someone should have told us about this, and perhaps we would not have been freezing our tulips off... For the record, the average temperature for January in my region was 3.7 degrees F below normal. That idiot charts shows it being warmer than normal by 1 to 2 degrees C.

The best indicator of temperature trends for me is home heating oil and electric consumption. My oil use in gallons has been 15% higher this year, and we programmed the thermostat 2 degrees lower. Last summer, out electric use in kilowatt hours (air conditioning being the single biggest factor) was 19% lower.

Another confusing thing... Our weather in the NE, specifically cold air, comes from Canada. So, how is it that we were colder than the source? Seriously, this chart defies logic. Hell, it defies reality. Then again, if it's NOAA's data, they're probably using rectal thermometers.


My regards,

Widewing

I will throw you a riddle. There is a factor that is not calculated into temp measurements, but yet will do quite a bit when it comes to your power bills. This factor has been predicted to grow in magnitude in the case of more energy in the atmosphere. Make my day and tell me what it is 

[saggs]

WoooooooooooHoooooooooo   

100 pages of beating a dead horse.  Every argument in this thread has gone around in more circles then a NASCAR race.

[sluggish]

IT DOES.

Simple enough?

So...  What you are saying....  Is that even though you have professed warmer temps in your area - so warm in fact that you are able to grow crop that are not even indigenous to your area- and even though you have told tales of personally witnessing receding glaciers near your home....  Even though you have told us again and again about all of these things...  You are going to stand by a "graph" that states that YOUR AREA has recently trended BELOW AVERAGE.

This is just going around and around.  When asked for proof of global warming we are either shown crayola drawings made using "messaged" data or pictures of trash floating in the ocean.  We are told that glaciers that are receding are due to higher temps but when the fact that the areas are in fact colder we are then told that glacier growth actually relies more on precipitation than temp and that receding glaciers are an indicator of lowered precipitation which is caused by global warmer --THEN... IN THE NEXT BREATH... We are told that global warming and HIGHER average global temps are the cause of colder winters and INCREASED PRECIPITATION!!!

You guys just need to get your story straight.  OR... Better yet..  Admit that you've had the wool pulled over your eyes and take the ribbing that you've got coming to you so we can get to the real issue which is tracking down the perpetrators of this massive fraud and seeing justice served.

[Angus]

So...  What you are saying....  Is that even though you have professed warmer temps in your area - so warm in fact that you are able to grow crop that are not even indigenous to your area- and even though you have told tales of personally witnessing receding glaciers near your home....  Even though you have told us again and again about all of these things...  You are going to stand by a "graph" that states that YOUR AREA has recently trended BELOW AVERAGE.

This is just going around and around.  When asked for proof of global warming we are either shown crayola drawings made using "messaged" data or pictures of trash floating in the ocean.  We are told that glaciers that are receding are due to higher temps but when the fact that the areas are in fact colder we are then told that glacier growth actually relies more on precipitation than temp and that receding glaciers are an indicator of lowered precipitation which is caused by global warmer --THEN... IN THE NEXT BREATH... We are told that global warming and HIGHER average global temps are the cause of colder winters and INCREASED PRECIPITATION!!!

You guys just need to get your story straight.  OR... Better yet..  Admit that you've had the wool pulled over your eyes and take the ribbing that you've got coming to you so we can get to the real issue which is tracking down the perpetrators of this massive fraud and seeing justice served.

AGAIN.

The "graph" consists of a "climate qualified" length of time, - 30 years, compared to a particular month, which many folks on the board have been yelling about as being cold. In my case, it shows warming, which is very much in consistence of what I experience. Now, for those more focused on the solar output ("it's the sun stupid"), this is occuring when we have the solar output on the minimum of the typical 11 years cycle.
Note how temps are going down on the mid-continents compared to the oceans and the areas nearer to the poles stay in the warming zone.
And...this map is pretty rough. By sectors I mean. Not a lot of resolution.

[Angus]

sluggish: just to make sure you were looking at the right image, here it is...again:


RED means the warming side, and I live in the middle of the N-Atlantic, on a dot which shows a +1 anomality above the last 30 years. Pretty much agrees with my memory of not being able to go skating since 1982.

[sluggish]

sluggish: just to make sure you were looking at the right image, here it is...again:
(Image removed from quote.)

RED means the warming side, and I live in the middle of the N-Atlantic, on a dot which shows a +1 anomality above the last 30 years. Pretty much agrees with my memory of not being able to go skating since 1982.

Well Angus, I apologize.  I thought you were in the Netherlands.  However,  the map does not correlate with my mild summers and extreme winters for the past eight or ten years here in Michigan.

[MORAY37]

Well Angus, I apologize.  I thought you were in the Netherlands.  However,  the map does not correlate with my mild summers and extreme winters for the past eight or ten years here in Michigan.

Winter 2008/2009 Climate Summary For Southwest

        CLIMATOLOGICAL SUMMARY FOR DETROIT - JANUARY 2010

...FAIRLY TYPICAL JANUARY BUT LIKE DECEMBER...A BIT LIGHT ON THE SNOW
   ALSO THE 11TH DRIEST JANUARY ON RECORD...
...JANUARY ENDED THE WAY IT CAME IN...COLD RELATIVE TO NORMAL...
...JANUARY THAW ARRIVES AS THOUGH CUED...RIGHT ON SCHEDULE...
...SNOWFALL THIS SEASON PALES IN COMPARISON TO THE LAST FEW SEASONS...
***DOMINANT TEMPERATURE/RAIN-SNOW TREND...NORMAL/BELOW NORMAL***

ALL THINGS CONSIDERED...JANUARY TURNED OUT TO BE A TYPICAL JANUARY...
ALBEIT WITH SOMEWHAT LESS STORM ACTION AND SNOW. TEMPERATURES ROAD AN
ACTIVE ROLLER-COASTER BUT IN THE END...CAME OUT JUST A SMIDGEN ABOVE
NORMAL (OR IN THE NORMAL RANGE)

Winter 2008/2009 Climate Summary For Southwest
Lower Michigan
4
The relative coldness of the winter of 2008/2009 compared to previous winters is seen in Figure 2. Since 1987 there have been only four colder than normal winters: 1993/1994, 1995/1996, 2002/2003 and 2008/2009. Out of the twenty-three winters since 1986/1987, ten winters were warmer than normal

[sluggish]

Hover and pounce? 

Cut and paste all you like.  The fact of the matter is that I haven't had to run my AC for years (in fact I haven't even put it in the window for the last three) and my gas consumption has increased almost every year.  Maybe you could post another picture of trash floating in the ocean to prove how wrong I am about my own surroundings...

[MORAY37]

Hover and pounce?  

Cut and paste all you like.  The fact of the matter is that I haven't had to run my AC for years (in fact I haven't even put it in the window for the last three) and my gas consumption has increased almost every year.  Maybe you could post another picture of trash floating in the ocean to prove how wrong I am about my own surroundings...

Yeah, I'm sickened by the obfuscation and blatant mis-truths  by you and others on here.

The difference is, I post empirical results. Empirically, (meaning observations not based on theory or system) 10 of the winters in your area since 1987 have been warmer than the base, 4 have been cooler than the base, and the rest have been "normal" (9).  That's 19 of the last 23 winters, being warmer (10) or normal (9).

Your assertion that the last decade has been colder than normal in Michigan, isn't tied to the empirical data and therefore completely lacks merit.

The fact you don't run your AC and your gas consumption rose isn't necessarily tied implicitly to exterior temps. Perhaps the temps are swinging wildly in both extremes and you focus on the cold more.... Perhaps your own tastes have changed. Perhaps you're just getting old and like it warmer... who knows.  But the bottom line, is you are dead wrong about your statement.

[Simba]

This ol' cat was in Wales a few days ago visiting friends. One of them uttered this gem:

'Global warming? Here in Wales? Bring it on, man, bring it on!'

Too right.

<warms hands on glass of hot toddy>

 

 

[CptTrips]

LoL.  I knew Moray couldn't stay out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

 

Wab

[MORAY37]

LoL.  I knew Moray couldn't stay out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

 

Wab

Lol...it's just been painful to watch.

[Masherbrum]

This is just going round and around.  It really isn't worth going about anymore....every point is a point of contention and there isn't a single person here even remotely skeptical, besides perhaps Anax and CAP..... your minds are made up and aren't open to the simplest of explanations, even the basic analysis of data is misunderstood and questioned. You call yourselves skeptical.... but many of you have made up your minds by being told by Fox News what is going on.  I haven't seen a single rebuttal worth arguing over yet...just posting of news stories...if anyone even bothers to do even that.

There is absolutely no ability to find any perspective of common ground from which to even frame a debate.

It just isn't worth the time I've spent on it.  I've enjoyed the polite debate with some, but I'm really tired of the personal vendettas on here. When in the past two pages I've been called stupid, a tool, had my intelligence questioned.....etc etc....

Enjoy the remainder of the thread.  I'm out.  When it ceases to be fun, there's no point in continuing.  I'll just end up PNG'd.

(Image removed from quote.)
I'm out.