Author Topic: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others  (Read 3198 times)

Offline Sloehand

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Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« on: November 25, 2009, 12:01:06 PM »
This post concerns GV’s in scenarios.  The last two scenarios to include GV’s have displayed many difficulties that have resulted in quite a number of dedicated GV players quiting in anger and frustration during the scenario, and others indicating their refusal to participate in future scenarios as tankers.

While there were some improvements in the GV setup in this last scenario “Red Storm/Krupp Steel” over “Tunisia: Dawn Of Battle”, there were still significant factors to the gameplay and rules that led to extreme dissatisfaction for many players.   

Given that Tunisia was planned for around 30 GV’ers per side and Red Storm only 20, and the fact that the Axis side only once started a frame with even three quarters of their assigned GV’ers, and usually played with half or less, and that the Allies only once got even close to their full numbers, all indicates that the GV element of scenerios is not working, and may even be dead at this point.

As one of those GV enthusiasts in the game, and having gone through these scenarios as well as several FSO’s with GV’s included, and having been involved in sponsoring TanK KluB a year or so back, I have been paying close attention to this problem.  And I am not quite ready to give up on GV’s in scenarios just yet when I think there are still solutions and improvements as yet untried.  I believe some further adjustments might make GV’s both viable and enjoyable in a scenario without the aggravation and frustration that has gone on for one or both sides.

To that end, I have been working slowly, over time, on a couple of GV-centric scenarios that I think address most of the problematic issues and offer some additional dimension or gameplay options for tankers.  However, with so many GV’ers refusing to participate in the future, I’m wondering if it is even worthwhile to complete the work to put these scenarios on.

Therefore, this open letter to GV’ers, and anyone else interested, is to ask if any AH GV’ers would be willing to consider a new scenario, sometime in the future, that was designed by a tanker, primarily for tankers, with aircraft being only a very small component, if they are included at all -- with rules structured to eliminate the MA-like gameplay that has ruined GV action so far, and provide more varied and robust gameplay with many more tactical options for the tankers?

As these scenarios I’m planning, instead of being 80-90% air and 10% GV’s, would be GV-centric meaning probably 80-90% GV’s, it would require a minimum of 60+ tankers per side, and hopefully more, to put one on.  Therefore I’ve got to know if there is enough interest in this in the community.   

I simply need a short response here, from both dedicated tankers and pilots who might like to get into a tank, who would be willing to at least take a look at such a tanker’s scenario some time in the future, to gauge whether enough might be willing to participate to make it worthwhile to continue.
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Offline saantana

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2009, 12:12:03 PM »
What happened to tank club?

Edit: care to elaborate on why the GV'ers were so dissatisfied with the Red Storm scenari
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 12:42:38 PM by saantana »
Saantana
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Offline greens

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 12:18:36 PM »
No matter what anyone does it will still be not enough.
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Offline saantana

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 12:42:07 PM »
Double post
Saantana
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Offline AKP

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 12:43:01 PM »
I would be willing to take part. Tanking is something I enjoy in AH... but as you stated, the MA is not a realistic GV environment.  Spawn and hangar camping dont lead to good tank battles, and the few of us that do like to drive tanks, dont see much GV on GV action in the MA.

But... with that said, I think part of the problem is the limited types of tanks and support vehicles that are currently available in game.  In order to increase tank interest, I think HTC needs to devote some time in getting more tanks, tank destroyers, mobile artillery, troop carriers, and the like into the game.  

HTC has said time and again, that this is not JUST an air combat sim, but rather a WW2 combat sim.  But in order for that to be the case, more ground vehicles need to be available.  And the basis of them being brought into the game shouldn't just be on how they will perform in the MA's.  

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Offline CDR1

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 12:53:19 PM »
3 or 4 well flown IL2's will kill any gv attack, since this always seems to take place when there is no fighter cover a gv battle is doomed unless this situation is dealt with. I suggest we take a page from history. ( battle of the bulge). Sock in the battle area with bad weather. I have enjoyed gv battles at ports when the cloud cover made attack planes useless. There are more reasons for people being upset at some of the gv battles, this is just a comment regarding 1 issue.

Offline 68ZooM

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 01:08:34 PM »
I would be willing to take part. Tanking is something I enjoy in AH... but as you stated, the MA is not a realistic GV environment.  Spawn and hangar camping dont lead to good tank battles, and the few of us that do like to drive tanks, dont see much GV on GV action in the MA.

But... with that said, I think part of the problem is the limited types of tanks and support vehicles that are currently available in game.  In order to increase tank interest, I think HTC needs to devote some time in getting more tanks, tank destroyers, mobile artillery, troop carriers, and the like into the game.  

HTC has said time and again, that this is not JUST an air combat sim, but rather a WW2 combat sim.  But in order for that to be the case, more ground vehicles need to be available.  And the basis of them being brought into the game shouldn't just be on how they will perform in the MA's.  

Then you need to go look at WWII online they "have" all that and the frame rates suck when you get that many people in various equipment, Planes, Tanks, Ground Troops(First person shooter) AA Guns, you name it and that game has it all, BUT you need darn near a super computer to run the game.

I run this system...

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and it smokes AcesHigh and any other game out there, BUT WWII online at times makes this seem like its a 10 year old rig because of all the "eye Candy"  you have to remember with more graphics reduces your systems performance, and not alot of people cant afford a super computer and game developers know this
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Offline Belial

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 01:13:41 PM »
I tried to get into last weeks scenario but it was at 3:00pm and i got home from work at 3:10pm and was locked out.  As for any improvements you have in mind, all we can do is try them and see how they work.  I'm game.

Offline AKP

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 01:17:11 PM »
Then you need to go look at WWII online they "have" all that and the frame rates suck when you get that many people in various equipment, Planes, Tanks, Ground Troops(First person shooter) AA Guns, you name it and that game has it all, BUT you need darn near a super computer to run the game.

No thanks, I dont "need" to go look at WWII Online... and the frame rates suck there for more reasons than just the number of players.  I dont think anyone here is looking to turn AH into what WWII Online is.  Just looking to further develop the ground element of this game... which if it were, could be much more diverse and enjoyable for everyone.

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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 01:49:29 PM »
I guess a lot of that would have to do with if you are preparing actual historical scenarios or not.

I've been taking a lot of time off from the game lately and have gotten engrossed with a war strategy game called West Front by a now defunct company, TalonSoft.  There are somewhere over 100 scenarios to play, from infantry to tank battles to the landings on Omaha Beach and the scenarios cover Europe, the Mediterranian and Africa.

One of the more fun scenarios is called Debut the Honey.  Here's a little history from Wikipedia:

The British Army was the first to use the Light Tank M3 as the "General Stuart" in combat. In November 1941, some 170 Stuarts took part in Operation Crusader, with poor results. Although the high losses suffered by Stuart-equipped units during the operation had more to do with better tactics and training of the Afrika Korps than the apparent superiority of German armor in the North African campaign, the operation revealed that the M3 had several technical faults. Mentioned in the British complaints were the 37 mm M5 gun and poor internal layout. The two-man turret crew was a significant weakness, and some British units tried to fight with three-man turret crews. The Stuart also had a limited range, which was a severe problem in desert warfare as units often outpaced their supplies and were stranded when they ran out of fuel. On the positive side, crews liked its high speed and mechanical reliability. The high speed and high reliability distinguished the Stuart from cruiser tanks of the period, in particular the Crusader, which composed a large portion of the British tank force in Africa up until 1942.

The name General Stuart or Stuart given by the British comes from the American Civil War General J.E.B. Stuart and was used for both the M3 and M5 Light Tank; in British service it also had the unofficial nickname of Honey(named when a tank driver remarked "She's a honey").


While the Honey was outclassed by it's German counterparts, with proper tactical use, at least in the game, it's able to do much better than history reflects.

I'd love to play this type of scenario but:

1. AH doesn't have the right GV's
2. AH doesn't have the right terrain
3. I don't know how you could possibly get the players to even closely approximate the actual battle.
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Offline 715

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2009, 03:16:20 PM »
I would enjoy a GV-centric scenario and would join if it weren't unbalanced.

I agree with others that AH is a bit limited on the GV front; too few types of vehicles and terrain that does not provide much cover.  However, at least a scenario would be a vastly better experience than trying to tank in the MA (where the ratio of air assets to ground assets is about the inverse of real life).

Offline Kermit de frog

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2009, 05:40:52 PM »
Stalin's Fourth Scenario was filled with T34's vs Panzers, and with even fewer planes.  That scenario was a blast! 

Here is a film created by Yucca on Stalin's Fourth scenario:
Download


Sloehand, I would absolutely join a GV centric scenario!
Time's fun when you're having flies.

Offline BiPoLaR

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2009, 05:44:08 PM »

 Yucca

HIJACK!!!
where is YUCCA?
you seen or talked to him?
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Offline Big Rat

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2009, 06:31:19 PM »
Would deffinitly be interested.  I'm not close to the best tanker around but, I enjoy doing it. 

 :salute
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Offline Raptor

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Re: Open Letter To AH Tankers - and others
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2009, 07:03:39 PM »
Stalin's Fourth had a successful GV element. You were not designated a GV driver for the full frame. I recall flying 190s mostly and GVs for about 30 minutes and I had fun.