Author Topic: I.D. this plane (from a test)  (Read 551 times)

Offline M.C.202

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« on: March 21, 2001, 11:51:00 PM »
Name aircraft X.


X was tested against a Bf109E and a Spitfire VB.

"The X and the Bf 109E carried out dogfighting  at 6,000and 15,000 ft, the
latter aircraft having a hight advantage of 1,000 ft in each case."

"The Bf109 using the normal German fighter tactics of diving and zooming could only get
a fleeting shot."

"The Bf109 cannot compete with the X in a turn and even if the Bf109 is behind the X at
the start, the latter should be able to shake him off and get in a burst before two
complete turns have been carried out."

The Bf109 then tried diving on the X from above and continuing the dive down to ground
levelafter a short burst of fire. It was found however, that the X could follow and
catch up on the Bf109 in a dive of over 4,000 ft."

"The X then carried out a similar trial with the Spitfire V, and it was found that
although the X haa a superiorty of speed up to 15,000 ft, it was out-climbed and just
out-turned by the Spitfire."




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M.C.202
Dino in Reno

Offline J_A_B

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2001, 12:08:00 AM »
Shooting in the dark here...

It is a Macci 202?

Or a D.520?

Those would be my first guesses.  I have more guesses available.


J_A_B

[This message has been edited by J_A_B (edited 03-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by J_A_B (edited 03-22-2001).]

Offline Jochen

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2001, 12:36:00 AM »
Plane X = P-39

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline M.C.202

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2001, 12:55:00 AM »
Jochen said:

"Plane X = P-39"

Shot down in less than two complete turns....  :-)
Did you remember it, or check the books?

Not too bad for a bird many think was just about the worst one the U.S. made.

Anyone want more posts like this?


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M.C.202
Dino in Reno

Offline J_A_B

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2001, 01:41:00 AM »
Yes, cool post


P-39 was one of my "extra guess available" lol!

More please!!!

J_A_B

funked

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2001, 03:10:00 AM »
Yep it was a P-39, and it was the P400 version, early D model that wasn't cleared for WEP boost.  In WB they have the P-39D-2 cleared for WEP, which could outclimb a Zeke up to 15,000 feet or so.  And they wonder why it shoots down so many 109s.    

Here's what I want to see in AH:
P-39D/P400 USAAF Markings (no WEP, 20mm or 37mm loadout option)
P-39N or Q VVS Markings (WEP)
P-63 Free French Markings (Perk)


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-22-2001).]

Offline Jochen

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2001, 03:38:00 AM »
I remembered reading that once on Joe Baughers site, I think I posted that quote to AGW too two years ago  

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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline Vermillion

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2001, 07:10:00 AM »
Funked wrote:
 
Quote
P-63 Free French Markings (Perk)

Why Perked? Low production or low combat numbers?

Its certainly not a world beater in the least performancewise.  Slightly slower than a mustang, a little better turning, and depending on which US 37mm gun goes in it, a BFG with a low muzzle velocity.

But I agree I would love to see it !  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

funked

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2001, 07:52:00 AM »
At low levels it's just as fast as the P-51D, climb rate over 4000 fpm with water injection.  A very good turning plane with excellent roll rate.  Comparable to La-7.

It should be perked, as should La-7, Fw 190D-9, and all the other late-war low-production jobs.  Hell anything after 1942 should have some perk price.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-22-2001).]

Offline Vermillion

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2001, 10:01:00 AM »
   
Quote
It should be perked, as should La-7, Fw 190D-9, and all the other late-war low-production jobs.

Well, personally I don't really consider the La7 and the Fw190-D9 in the same category, at least in regards to your above statement. There were something like 5,700+  La7's, and there were only around 700 Dora's (both approximate numbers).  In terms of total production numbers, proportional numbers to total fighter strength, or by many other standards such as time in combat, the La7 is much more comparable to the Fw190A8 or the P-51D.

Just as long as such principals are applied evenly accross the board, its fine by me.  In regards to the "late war low production" standards I kinda look at it to see if less than 1,000 were produced ( <1,000 = low production) or if they only saw less than 6 months of war as my personal standards ( < 6 months = ultra late war). Of course that is a "non-performance" standard, which has to be looked at as well.

   
Quote
Hell anything after 1942 should have some perk price.

Well.. as long as we do it that way, I can live with it.     And I actually LIKE this idea, except for the fact that I think it will widen the performance gap between skilled pilots and average pilots even more than the current system.

Just don't lump the La7 into the same "production and importance" class as a Dora or in a "performance" class with a Spit XIV.    

Now that my current rant is all said and done  , IMO, I think we could include an unperked P-63C into the arena without unbalancing it, in any way.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-22-2001).]

Offline M.C.202

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2001, 01:44:00 PM »
I'll post more "I.D. from flight tests" after I finish my move.

We (the boss, er wife and I) are buying a house, and all but two books are packed for the move.

I HATE moving, too many hobbies, scuba, hunting & shooting, aircraft history,
fishing, WWII re-enacting, SCA, the '43jeep, all the BOOKS (150 boxes of hardbound alone)....


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M.C.202
Dino in Reno

Offline Westy

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2001, 02:04:00 PM »
 The USAAF 350th FG had P-39's and they used them into late 1944 in the Med/Italian theatre.

From the 350th history:
.......While flying 10 missions, comprising 75 sorties,
on this day the group, in the face of intense antiaircraft fire, destroyed 1 highway
bridge and 2 railroad bridges, 2 air warning installation, 1 barracks building
and 2 trucks, and inflicted many casualties on enemy personnel and heavy damage on numerous other military buildings and vehicles. Just as one flight of six P-39
dive bombers was completing an attack on enemy communications in the Grosseto-Pisa
area, they were intercepted by 10 or more ME-109's and FW-190's. Gallantly ignoring
the odds against them, and despite damage to their own aircraft, the P-39 pilots
unhesitatingly turned into the larger hostile formation and attacked with such
skill and determination that five enemy fighters were shot down, two were damaged
and the remainder driven from the battle area..."

from http://www.msawest.com/devilhawkmedcamp4.htm


   -Westy


(edited to remove pix due to general lack of interest and to make topic load faster for talks on the FW. As if we really needed to talk about them...again..)




[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-22-2001).]

Offline Zigrat

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2001, 03:29:00 PM »
vermillion comparing the la7 to the 190a8 is silly


Sturm

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2001, 05:35:00 PM »
D9 and A8 were close in production numbers as well m8

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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron

funked

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I.D. this plane (from a test)
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2001, 05:41:00 PM »
Sturm there were about twice as many A-8's as D-9's.

Verm there were 291 combat-ready La-7's in early 1945.  I'm sure they had a lot more in the production lines, but it is still a late-war-wonder, first entering combat in Fall 1944, like the Dora.

Funny that you compare it to the Spitfire F. Mk. XIV, which was in combat in January 1944!