Negative-G push? or "stick stir"?

[Getback]

I'm seeing people pulling negative gs in a climb these days. I see nothing wrong with it.

[dedalos]

No, he's not. He never turns (except to try to keep trees between himself and an attacker) and never rolls.  It appears to be solely max/min elevator deflections.  I'll try to remember to get a film of what I'm talking about if I see him up again. <S>

Who are we talking about?  Only to compare notes in case I have fought him.

[chancevought]

If someone is on your 6 you have the right to do whatever you want to try to shake em. No shame in trying to stay alive. Watch old gun footage and you'll see more than one pilot push over once he started receiving lead. Vulches in a non base capture and spawn camping are about the only unexcusable acts in here. Everything else is just survival.

[Ghastly]

Obviously, a lot of people have read this thread... I'm starting to retract my casual acceptance of the practice as it seems to be going from a last ditch manuever to the evasion of choice - and I'm not talking about a bunt. I'm starting to see a lot more SUSTAINED neg G maneuvering in the MA.

From the film viewer, you can't see what G your opponents pulled, but you can guess based upon the speed and manuever. The Typhie I engaged last evening is starting to feel like the new norm - running out at 450-ish at about 2 K ft, just as I fired from about 400 yds went from level to around 45' degrees nose down in about 2 seconds (had to have been way into red out), pulled level at around 500 ft, and then rolled 90 ' and pulled what looked like a near max G turn to the left. 

Had he done this for real, is eyeballs would have exploded - if not his entire head. 

About 15 min later, I watched a P38 do a similar (although less abusive) sustained neg G pushover at a bit over 300 to near vertical in about 2 seconds  - which would also have made his eyes bleed.

C'Est'Le'Vie.  It's a game - and a silly one at times.

<S>

[Dadsguns]

Both are gamey and are being exploited beyond the occasional escape attempt, its now the norm to expect a high speed NEG G turn or a fish flopping out of the water stunt when on someones six.
 
No plane from that era could withstand or even do the ariel acrobatic mini shows that they get away with in this game with no structural damage or pilot injuries accounted for.  
Not only that, but a NEG G turning plane could not out turn a POS G turning plane as what most planes are designed to do.  So they do what they can get away with.
 
The plane modeling should take this into account or it will continue to be exploited.  

[10thmd]

What about a Negative-G Barrel Roll? I use this to force an overshoot on planes that are very close to my energy state.

[thorsim]

stick stirring is as it sounds ...

it is a "game tactic" with no real world applications.  essentially what you are doing is making extreme opposing stick inputs to confuse the games ability to predict your position relative to your pursuer so he has very little chance of hitting you because you are "not really where he sees you", and you from his perspective seem to be hopping around or moving someplace other than where you are pointed.  basically a bunch of little warps that confuses his solution.  sometimes these can be subtle like a negative G fade before a hard pull positive G turn which seems pretty common in here and is also intended to throw off the prediction code and has no real world use.

it is not a jink or a skid or a negative G push over or rudder elevator adjustment during rolls or any other legitimate ACM evasive however desperate or aggressive.  

which can look funny depending on the respective connections ...

so the difference is in the intent of the maneuver and it can be hard to ferret out who is trying to game and who is not.  although there are some dead giveaways mainly the fade/pull described above, and the repeated hippity hop that you sometimes see.  
those are guys messing with your FE and when i see that i consider them lame gamers.

hope that helps clear things up ...