Author Topic: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)  (Read 32905 times)

Offline Bronk

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #225 on: December 13, 2009, 04:20:55 PM »
i just got it. i understand now.

thor is right.

hitech took the raw data, massaged it all to suit his purposes, and then ran his computer model.

 unfortunately, we can never prove this, as he threw out the original data.

 :noid :neener:
Flight model gate?
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #226 on: December 13, 2009, 04:30:05 PM »
Flight model gate?

yep.

any moment now, it's all going to spiral out of control.  :rofl
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Offline Bronk

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #227 on: December 13, 2009, 04:36:56 PM »
Quick Thorism, send HTC a FOIA request for flight model data before he destroys it.
 :bolt:
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Offline thorsim

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #228 on: December 13, 2009, 05:30:59 PM »
yea ok here come the comics feeling the cartoon world status quo is threatened ...

<F> it

you guys say the big planes out fly the small planes in TRW ...

fine, post your f4u/38/jugg or pony pilot saying he has got it all over the 109/spit/yak/or FW in a maneuver fight like your compatriots have argued here ...

http://www.redbullairrace.com/cs/Satellite/en_air/Video/Weight-Matters-021238615428953?p=1238611393596

until then i will take his opinion about weight and how important it is and consider you all misguided ...

sorry guys trying to have a real discussion here but it is impossible ...

BTW if any of you venture off the AH boards with these opinions do let me know i very much would like to see your public education as it has been very amusing in the past ...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/best-fighter-iii-614-71.html

and i am sure it will be even better with some personal experience to reflect on as you are set straight ...

done here ...

i just got it. i understand now.

thor is right.

hitech took the raw data, massaged it all to suit his purposes, and then ran his computer model.

 unfortunately, we can never prove this, as he threw out the original data.

 :noid :neener:
Flight model gate?
yep.

any moment now, it's all going to spiral out of control.  :rofl
Quick Thorism, send HTC a FOIA request for flight model data before he destroys it.
 :bolt:

THOR C.O. II ~JG-27~ Afrika-AH
Axis Co-Op
Quote from: any number of idiots here
blah blah Blah
Quote from: oldman
Good call.  Ignore the people who actually flew the real planes against each other.

Offline CAP1

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #229 on: December 13, 2009, 05:42:18 PM »
yea ok here come the comics feeling the cartoon world status quo is threatened ...

<F> it

you guys say the big planes out fly the small planes in TRW ...

fine, post your f4u/38/jugg or pony pilot saying he has got it all over the 109/spit/yak/or FW in a maneuver fight like your compatriots have argued here ...

http://www.redbullairrace.com/cs/Satellite/en_air/Video/Weight-Matters-021238615428953?p=1238611393596

until then i will take his opinion about weight and how important it is and consider you all misguided ...

sorry guys trying to have a real discussion here but it is impossible ...

BTW if any of you venture off the AH boards with these opinions do let me know i very much would like to see your public education as it has been very amusing in the past ...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/best-fighter-iii-614-71.html

and i am sure it will be even better with some personal experience to reflect on as you are set straight ...

done here ...



wow, do you need a sense of humor.  :rofl

i'll try one more time to explain, using the ingame planes(since i've obviously never flown them in rl)

take a p38 vs a hurri2.

if i'm in the hurri2, i'm gonna try my damnedest to get the 38 pile-it into a flat fight. no alt or speed to work with. none. now, he's dog meat, unless he's smart enough to extend and reset.
 now his size and weight will work against him.

 if i'm in the 38, i'm gonna do my damnedest to keep the ability to use vertical maneuvers. i'll tyr to NOT get into a flat fight with him. i'll keep it in such a way, that i can crop my nose a couple of degrees, and shortcut his flat circle.
 maybe i'm going too fast entering the turn.....so i'll raise my nose a couple of degrees, bleeding speed, but when i come back down, i'm once again short cutting his circle.
 maybe i won't even enter into a horizontial circle with him, but rather i'll drag him into a looping fight.

 see what i'm getting at here?

 you have to think of things besides flat circles in turning fights.

all of the math you want to throw at these aircraft is null. it only matters if 2 pile-its of the exact same skill are flying in the exact same way.

 take two different skill level pile-its, and let them fly to the particular advantages of their aircraft, and....well........i hope you get the picture.

 r
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Offline Bear76

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #230 on: December 13, 2009, 05:54:55 PM »
yea ok here come the comics feeling the cartoon world status quo is threatened ...

<F> it

you guys say the big planes out fly the small planes in TRW ...

fine, post your f4u/38/jugg or pony pilot saying he has got it all over the 109/spit/yak/or FW in a maneuver fight like your compatriots have argued here ...

http://www.redbullairrace.com/cs/Satellite/en_air/Video/Weight-Matters-021238615428953?p=1238611393596

until then i will take his opinion about weight and how important it is and consider you all misguided ...

sorry guys trying to have a real discussion here but it is impossible ...

BTW if any of you venture off the AH boards with these opinions do let me know i very much would like to see your public education as it has been very amusing in the past ...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/best-fighter-iii-614-71.html

and i am sure it will be even better with some personal experience to reflect on as you are set straight ...

done here ...


Ah Crumpp, I think he's been banned from every BBS. He's not always right, but he was never wrong. Relation maybe?

Offline hitech

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #231 on: December 13, 2009, 06:15:12 PM »
yea ok here come the comics feeling the cartoon world status quo is threatened ...

<F> it

you guys say the big planes out fly the small planes in TRW ...

fine, post your f4u/38/jugg or pony pilot saying he has got it all over the 109/spit/yak/or FW in a maneuver fight like your compatriots have argued here ...

http://www.redbullairrace.com/cs/Satellite/en_air/Video/Weight-Matters-021238615428953?p=1238611393596

until then i will take his opinion about weight and how important it is and consider you all misguided ...

sorry guys trying to have a real discussion here but it is impossible ...

BTW if any of you venture off the AH boards with these opinions do let me know i very much would like to see your public education as it has been very amusing in the past ...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/best-fighter-iii-614-71.html

and i am sure it will be even better with some personal experience to reflect on as you are set straight ...

done here ...




You have just proven the point only I must add a few.
Quote
We become very tired of discussing the above post with someone who,

1 Has and agenda
2 Lacks the knowledge to discuss the above statement.
3 Has no desire to acquire the knowledge to discuss the above statement.
4 Uses terms like "but i would intuitively".
5 Has been proven wrong so many times, most people with any real knowledge no longer wish to get involved in the conversation.
6 When cornered starts name calling with stupid statements like "but at least you replied in agreement, the rest of the  "fairie dust and combat flaps fix everything"
7 Actually believes that if he repeat the same BS over and over and over, that maybe someone would believe him.
8 Actually will make a statement that "He is right because no one is saying he is wrong any longer"
9 Shows all the traits of a classic Luftwhiner in the best tradition of other players such as Crump.
10 Has for more than a month continued to whine about flaps in almost every post he makes.

HiTech
11 When finally proven wants to still believe he is correct, but takes his ball and goes home.
12  Is so full of himself that he believes people who have degrees in the topic at hand, have been studying and using said degree for 15 years ,misguided.

All I can say is wow,some people are really stuck on stupid.


HiTech

Offline PFactorDave

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #232 on: December 13, 2009, 06:24:42 PM »

fine, post your f4u/38/jugg or pony pilot saying he has got it all over the 109/spit/yak/or FW in a maneuver fight like your compatriots have argued here ...




You know what, I've been reading this train wreck of a thread and the most ridiculous thing in it is the above challenge.  You know why you aren't going to find what you are asking them to produce?  

Because the real life WW2 pilots didn't fly like we do in AH...  Plain and simple.  We don't die if we make a mistake.  It's very possible, that the airframes could very well have done some of the things that we do in AH...  But the 20 something kids that were scared out of their minds, all pumped up on adrenalin, did everything they could not to get into the high G low speed knife fights.  One pass and haul buttocks was the order of the day.  

So asking these guys to produce such anecdotal accounts is just silly.  Real pilots in WW2 would never have even attempted, on a regular basis, to push their aircraft like we do.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 06:27:00 PM by PFactorDave »

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Offline Saxman

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #233 on: December 13, 2009, 06:51:20 PM »

 :rofl  Corsairs are ---> EASYMODE <--- :aok       :bolt:

I wouldn't go so far as to say that, (take a Corsair pilot who knows when NOT to drop flaps and a Corsair pilot who doesn't do anything BUT, and guaranteed the former will win about 90% of head-to-head matchups) but one major advantage the F4Us have over a significant part of the plane set is that she has multiple options against almost any opponent you run across.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline thorsim

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #234 on: December 13, 2009, 07:38:42 PM »
i just get the feeling hitech that if i replied with reciprocal courtesy to the last few posts there would be a rule number whatever here instead of what ever i posted and a board banning so i am not gonna play ...

i will leave it the way i did, and if you want real satisfaction on the so called retreat of mine like you allude to in your post below, just provide the real world current unbiased pilot/expert opinions supporting the statements made in here and elsewhere that i take exception to and really make you case.

until then you really haven't sir ...



You have just proven the point only I must add a few.11 When finally proven wants to still believe he is correct, but takes his ball and goes home.
12  Is so full of himself that he believes people who have degrees in the topic at hand, have been studying and using said degree for 15 years ,misguided.

All I can say is wow,some people are really stuck on stupid.


HiTech


i posted examples of expert opinions, if i can do it they could.  provided a current qualified opinion that is in support of these claims can be found if it exists.  it not being here speaks volumes.

You know what, I've been reading this train wreck of a thread and the most ridiculous thing in it is the above challenge.  You know why you aren't going to find what you are asking them to produce? 

Because the real life WW2 pilots didn't fly like we do in AH...  Plain and simple.  We don't die if we make a mistake.  It's very possible, that the airframes could very well have done some of the things that we do in AH...  But the 20 something kids that were scared out of their minds, all pumped up on adrenalin, did everything they could not to get into the high G low speed knife fights.  One pass and haul buttocks was the order of the day. 

So asking these guys to produce such anecdotal accounts is just silly.  Real pilots in WW2 would never have even attempted, on a regular basis, to push their aircraft like we do.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 07:45:52 PM by thorsim »
THOR C.O. II ~JG-27~ Afrika-AH
Axis Co-Op
Quote from: any number of idiots here
blah blah Blah
Quote from: oldman
Good call.  Ignore the people who actually flew the real planes against each other.

Offline Raptor

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #235 on: December 13, 2009, 08:12:44 PM »
You know what, I've been reading this train wreck of a thread and the most ridiculous thing in it is the above challenge.  You know why you aren't going to find what you are asking them to produce?  

Because the real life WW2 pilots didn't fly like we do in AH...  Plain and simple.  We don't die if we make a mistake.  It's very possible, that the airframes could very well have done some of the things that we do in AH...  But the 20 something kids that were scared out of their minds, all pumped up on adrenalin, did everything they could not to get into the high G low speed knife fights.  One pass and haul buttocks was the order of the day.  

So asking these guys to produce such anecdotal accounts is just silly.  Real pilots in WW2 would never have even attempted, on a regular basis, to push their aircraft like we do.
It's not as easy as that, even when represented with historical data in which larger aircraft could and did out turn larger aircraft, Thorsim will  not believe it.

Offline Bronk

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #236 on: December 13, 2009, 08:45:02 PM »



i posted examples of expert opinions

Hope you weren't referring to Crump.
If you were ... Bwahahahahahah
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Offline hitech

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #237 on: December 13, 2009, 09:00:22 PM »
Thor what you really do fail to realize, is that you are not quoting experts. And as I said, I posted all the details to back up any claim I made, I have done it multiple times, you have done nothing of the sort, your one link said simply with out changing any thing else but cutting weight makes a plane perform better Well Duhhh, you have just completed you have just made it to kindergarten level of this discusion.

You do realize that there are more experts in this very thread then you have cited so far. Do you listen to yourself, I do this stuff for a living day in and day out, and you are trying to say your knowledge on the topic of physics and aerodynamics is above mine when you have not read 1 book, took one class, produce been able to produce one equation. You are not even a pilot. You have no frame of reference of TRW of airplanes to even claim you do. 

You have not preformed one real life hammer head, you have never pushed 3 neg g's, you have never rode the edge of black outs in real planes. You have never felt accelerated stalls and had dog fights in real war birds. All of the above I have done many many times.

As far as my response to you, I have cut you an extream amount of slack in the past. You continue to prove how you really are following in crumps foot steps. You continue to state completely false statements after multiple people PROV YOU WRONG, not disagree, but factually by mathematical logic and accepted physics prove you wrong. But yet you still keep claiming the same thing after you have been cornered.

You have dug yourself a huge hole, I am now curious if you will keep digging.

HiTech




HiTech

Offline WMLute

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #238 on: December 13, 2009, 09:07:20 PM »
Hope you weren't referring to Crump.
If you were ... Bwahahahahahah


Oh you gota check out the link Thorism is posting.

Crump got banned from THAT forum as well.

 :rofl   :rofl   :rofl
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)
« Reply #239 on: December 13, 2009, 09:12:44 PM »
Oh you gota check out the link Thorism is posting.

Crump got banned from THAT forum as well.

 :rofl   :rofl   :rofl

who is crump? i never heard of him till this thread?
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