Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)

[Saxman]

Guys, don't take his bait. Remember the 19-page hijack he started when someone was just asking how to beat a Spit 16?

[thorsim]

Get you information on whatever plane your looking at and send it in to HiTech. If the info is from a good source they will adjust the plane accordingly in one of the patches.

I know folks have told you this before... I have myself in earlier posts. As far as I know at this point your posts regarding this have all been wishful thinking on your part.

No one has to post any info here... the planes aqre all based on information attained by HiTech through differing sources. From time to time they do make adjustments if better info is aquired. I'm sure you have info to back your posts otherwise you'd not be saying what you are saying. I mean only an idiot would do that. Send that info, hilighting what you are talking about, to HiTech. They may contact you for clarification or to find where that info came from. They do take it seriously.

Guys, don't take his bait. Remember the 19-page hijack he started when someone was just asking how to beat a Spit 16?

oh sorry i guess i should have just posted the ...

 

[BnZs]

.

there is a reason things seem counterintuitive, usually they are highly unlikely ...

Yes, counter-intuitive ideas are always false. A heavier object *so obviously* falls faster than a lighter one that it is not even debatable.

like a hog out turning a 109 ...

in the real world    

If you want to go by anecdotes instead of physics...
P-51s were known to be competitive with 109Gs in turning combat. You cannot debate this, oh lover of pilot anecdotes, since there are far too many pilot reports of P-51s winning Luftberrys with 109s. (You are not allowed to question the context of these results, since you have made it abundantly clear that you believe that flight physics as the rest of the world knows them have no bearing on flight performance.) And that the F4U owned P-51s in mock turning dogfight is also known...so what does this tell us?

[thorsim]

Yes, counter-intuitive ideas are always false. A heavier object *so obviously* falls faster than a lighter one that it is not even debatable.

If you want to go by anecdotes instead of physics...
P-51s were known to be competitive with 109Gs in turning combat. You cannot debate this, oh lover of pilot anecdotes, since there are far too many pilot reports of P-51s winning Luftberrys with 109s. (You are not allowed to question the context of these results, since you have made it abundantly clear that you do not believe that flight physics as the rest of the world knows them have no bearing on flight performance.) And that the F4U owned P-51s in mock turning dogfight is also known...so what does this tell us?

ummm no ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94

[BnZs]

ummm no ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94

Anecdote vs. Anecdote...LOL.

[thorsim]

Anecdote vs. Anecdote...LOL.

no skip holm has time in both types and has the chance to compare them in flight together with the pilots in radio communication ...

that is experience not "Anecdote"

real world testing that only a blinder wearing fanboy would dismiss ...

[Saxman]

Aaaaaaand the thread has now jumped its tracks.

[BnZs]

G-14 with 75% and the Mg151 weighs ~7000 lbs. Take the wing area of 175 square feet, divide, and you get a basic wing-loading of 40 lbs/foot.

F4U-1A at 75% weighs 12,389 lbs and has a wing area of 314 square feet. Resulting in a basic wing-loading of 39.5 lbs.

So things are looking good for a Corsair to be competitive with the 109s in a turn radius, without even considering the effects of the uber-flappen. One would expect that with such similar wing-loadings and the 109s power-loading advantage that it would have an advantage in turn RATE in game...oh wait, it DOES.

Better luck next time Thorsim, thanks for playing.

[BnZs]

And hundreds of WWII pilots did NOT have a chance compare performance? Under *slightly* more realistic conditions than two guys jacking around in a restorations in a mock dogfight?  

no skip holm has time in both types and has the chance to compare them in flight together with the pilots in radio communication ...

that is experience not "Anecdote"

real world testing that only a blinder wearing fanboy would dismiss ...

Hardly fly the Corsairs. Don't like them. I like fatuous morons even less is the thing. Will tell you, If you're having alot of trouble dealing with most Hogs in 109s, that's a personal problem, not a modeling problem.

[thorsim]

Aaaaaaand the thread has now jumped its tracks.

always seems to happen when the status quo is questioned in cartoon land huh ...

G-14 with 75% and the Mg151 weighs ~7000 lbs. Take the wing area of 175 square feet, divide, and you get a basic wing-loading of 40 lbs/foot.

F4U-1A at 75% weighs 12,389 lbs and has a wing area of 314 square feet. Resulting in a basic wing-loading of 39.5 lbs.

So things are looking good for a Corsair to be competitive with the 109s in a turn radius, without even considering the effects of the uber-flappen. One would expect that with such similar wing-loadings and the 109s power-loading advantage that it would have an advantage in turn RATE in game...oh wait, it DOES.

Better luck next time Thorsim, thanks for playing.

in the real world 109 has flaps and slats so lets see a real world pilot of these aircraft answer the question the way skip did ...

oh i forgot this is where you guys always fail ...

never mind

And hundreds of WWII pilots did NOT have a chance compare performance? Under *slightly* more realistic conditions than two guys jacking around in a restorations in a mock dogfight? 


Hardly fly the Corsairs. Don't like them. I like fatuous morons even less is the thing. Will tell you, If you're having alot of trouble dealing with most Hogs in 109s, that's a personal problem, not a modeling problem.

yep they have no idea what was going on with the other pilot/plane so it is an AAR, not a comparison, as skip has done ...

sorry you still can't see the difference ...

BWFB 

[BnZs]

always seems to happen when the status quo is questioned in cartoon land huh ...

in the real world 109 has flaps and slats so lets see a real world pilot of these aircraft answer the question the way skip did ...

Enough to decrease the power-off 1G stall speed of the 109 G-14 in question to 75mph IAS? Because that is the number that ultimately tells you the effective lift loading of the aircraft.

The F4U's turning capabilities in-game are backed up by the physics. For reasons unknown, take offense to this, you are abysmally ignorant of the physics involved, so you want to make innuendos and talk about everything else.

If you really want to question something in AHII, you ought to question why an airplane that in the real world stalled at 100mph IAS clean in AHII produces a larger turn radius than one that stalled at 105mph IAS clean...but that wouldn't follow in with the "agenda" now would it?

[WMLute]

Heresay, anecdotal evidence, opinions, etc, etc.. anything but hard proof (i.e. "acceptable" documentation)

I am going to go out on a limb here about Thorism and his "issues" with Aces High.

I have watched Thorism fly and fight in AcesHigh.

He's not very good; a "meh" on a good day.

I think the basis for most of his arguments/issues with the AH FM stems from his lack of flying skill.  It is the FM's fault he got shot down when, according to all the books he read and youtube clips he has watched, he should have won that fight.

I will (have) beat most of the pilots in this game while flying an inferior aircraft time and again.

It ain't the planes Thorism, it's the pilot.

Some day when you have logged the hours/days/weeks/months/years of practice you will 'get' that the flight model in AcesHigh is pretty durn accurate.  

Sure I feel several planes can be tweaked.  No I don't think the AH FM is perfect.  BUT it is pretty durn good and if you take the time to practice you will be amazed at what one can do.

Just because YOU get killed in a plane you "heard" was superior doesn't mean it is the planes, or the AH FM's fault that you died..


And FYI Thorism, I have yet to see you NOT end up looking like a fool when trying to debate AcesHigh's flight model in the various threads I have read.  It has been shown time and again that you lack even basic understanding of how FM's work and the physics involved.  

I have seen players who have forgotten more about the subject than you (or I) will probably ever know, walk away from your threads in frustration because it is like arguing with a child.  You THINK you understand the subject matter but in reality only have the most basic of grasp on it, and are flat out wrong about much of it.

[BnZs]

Yah Thor...things aren't that bad..."You can do eeet!"  

[humble]

By circumstance I had some fun fights with a good hog driver over the weekend. All in all the spitXVI vs hog is a fun matchup with the hog having the initial advantage (IMO) and the spitty gaining parity as the fight goes on. The spits climb and acceleration eat into the hogs E advantage over time. In the end I think gunnery makes the difference between good pilots. Most fights I lost either because I missed a shot or he hit what I considered to be a low % one...I'd say the reverse was also true. I don't ever fear another plane, its the guy flying it that bothers me....

[thorsim]

Yah Thor...things aren't that bad..."You can do eeet!"  
(Image removed from quote.)

hey i never said they were that bad ...

just still waiting for you guys to find either a real world current (in this case) f4u or 109 pilot to offer an opinion that is not completely the opposite of the situation in the game and or you paper excuses for the situation in the game ...

4 months now, still waiting ...