Plane vs Plane Tactics (Matchups)

[CAP1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01UuVc3rGP0

this is cool.....

squeemishly claustrophobic./.....


 

[CAP1]

once again i never discounted in any of these discussions other factors roll rate stick forces etc. ...

i just think size and weight tell in maneuverability ...

i need to leave right now, see you guys for the FSO ...

sol i hope your discomfort ends as quickly and painlessly as possible ...

++S++

t

you'll find this interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9YVei2Yb_k&feature=PlayList&p=C412124DFAA3F05C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=41

[hitech]

THorism:

your proposal above reduces the maneuver fight to a single sustained maneuver.

It does nothing of the sort, to change your direction in any plane, I.E. loop turn,  spit s.

Lift & gravity are the only forces that do this, and mass is the only thing that apposes it.

So I ask again, please define your terms you have yet to define.

PLEASE DEFINE ""In and By its self",

Because in one of your post you argued against yourself, you said very clearly

adding a engine modification that weighs 100lbs but doubles your horsepower may not make a plane less maneuverable it may make it more maneuverable.

So in the case adding weight did not make the plane less maneuverable PER YOUR STATEMENT.

Am I missing something or is the statement.

Any thing that adds weight makes a plane less maneuverable i.e.  ""In and By its self",
VS

adding a engine modification that weighs 100lbs but doubles your horsepower may not make a plane less maneuverable it may make it more maneuverable.

A complete contradiction.

My guess is you will now try to define what is is.

Also will you please define your term maneuverability, or at least say we are using Shaw's definition.

HiTech

[hitech]

Sol where do you live?

Care to exchange some stick time for an RV?

HiTEch

[Sol75]

Sol where do you live?

Care to exchange some stick time for an RV?

HiTEch

Sure! anytime man, I live in Cincinnati area, but I am coming through texas this spring to visit some family in El Paso... I could always make a stopover @ your home airfield for a few hours. 

Sol

[hitech]

52F is my field.

This was in front of my hangar.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/1968195/Plane-lands-on-top-of-another-in-Texas-crash.html

HiTech

[Sol75]

I think their collision model is all messed up! I didn;t see ANY messages on the screen... get to fixin it Hitech!  hehe 

(note this is sarcasm, the collision model in AH is as good as it can be with net lag and whatnot)

I am looking at probably the 1st week of June for my trip to Texas.  We can firm things up as the time approaches.  Could do a bit of flying, then grab dinner or something at one of those infamous Texas steakhouses

Sol

[CAP1]

52F is my field.

This was in front of my hangar.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/1968195/Plane-lands-on-top-of-another-in-Texas-crash.html

HiTech

they both thought the other would give way???  what a pair of amazinhunks!! hopefully they both lost their tickets for somethign that stupid.

 i NEVER pull out on the runway if there's anything anywhere on final.......ever. and if something pulls out while i am on final(it's happened 2x so far) i power up, and go around.

 friggin schmucks.

[CAP1]

THorism:

It does nothing of the sort, to change your direction in any plane, I.E. loop turn,  spit s.

Lift & gravity are the only forces that do this, and mass is the only thing that apposes it.

So I ask again, please define your terms you have yet to define.

PLEASE DEFINE ""In and By its self",

Because in one of your post you argued against yourself, you said very clearly
So in the case adding weight did not make the plane less maneuverable PER YOUR STATEMENT.

Am I missing something or is the statement.

Any thing that adds weight makes a plane less maneuverable i.e.  ""In and By its self",
VS
A complete contradiction.

My guess is you will now try to define what is is.

Also will you please define your term maneuverability, or at least say we are using Shaw's definition.

HiTech

i dont think he understands 1/2 of what he thinks he does. especially the use of vertical.

[Dinan]

they both thought the other would give way???  what a pair of amazinhunks!! hopefully they both lost their tickets for somethign that stupid.

 i NEVER pull out on the runway if there's anything anywhere on final.......ever. and if something pulls out while i am on final(it's happened 2x so far) i power up, and go around.

 friggin schmucks.

 

Nice insight Capt. Sullenberger 

[CAP1]

Nice insight Capt. Sullenberger 

sorry....i know i sounded like an arse......but crap like that is what makes people that don't fly, think that flying small aircraft is dangerous.
 there's a lot of guys at our local airports, that will see another on long final, and they'll pull out, and roll. to me that's stupid, and an unnecessary risk, as it'll only take the guy on final about 30 seconds to be on the ground.

 of course, what i hate to see even more is guys that will "take position and hold" while another is just wheels up. 

 maybe i'm just gettin 

[hitech]

What you do not know is that from the hold short line on runway 35 at 52F, it WAS completely impossible to see someone on short final. After that accident, they have cut the trees down so you can see people on final.

I used to always take a little extra time to make sure some one wasn't on final after I started looking. You could see downwind and base with no problem.

HiTech

[Guppy35]

52F is my field.

This was in front of my hangar.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/1968195/Plane-lands-on-top-of-another-in-Texas-crash.html

HiTech

When I was taking flying lessons way back when, I was getting some solo time in and was coming in to land on 32R.  There was another plane coming in on 32L at the same time.  The problem is he was actually coming down on 32R.  The controller's voice got higher and louder the closer this guy came to me.  I ended up having to pull off and away from under him and go around as the guy in the other plane just didn't get that he was going to land on the wrong runway.  I was counting rivits on his belly at the time they told me to go around.

Scary stuff.

[CAP1]

What you do not know is that from the hold short line on runway 35 at 52F, it WAS completely impossible to see someone on short final. After that accident, they have cut the trees down so you can see people on final.

I used to always take a little extra time to make sure some one wasn't on final after I started looking. You could see downwind and base with no problem.

HiTech

dam..i jumped on that one too quick..........


<in my best maxwell smart voice> sorry 'bout that chief.

seriously, they were both very lucky.

i'm an incredibly paranoid person when i'm pullin out on the runway........

[CAP1]

When I was taking flying lessons way back when, I was getting some solo time in and was coming in to land on 32R.  There was another plane coming in on 32L at the same time.  The problem is he was actually coming down on 32R.  The controller's voice got higher and louder the closer this guy came to me.  I ended up having to pull off and away from under him and go around as the guy in the other plane just didn't get that he was going to land on the wrong runway.  I was counting rivits on his belly at the time they told me to go around.

Scary stuff.

i think the closest i've ever been to another aircraft with both in the air was about 200 feet.


 the moving vietnam wall was in medford township. the mayor asked us if we could take some airborn pics during a ceremony. we agreed of course.

there were 3 of us in the cessna. gary was flying, i was riding right seat, and stan was the photog. all garys job was, was to take us over the target(the wall) at decent alt(we were at 1,500 ft) and angle for stan to get pics.
 my job was to scan for traffic, obstructions(there's a pair of radio towers that are 1,500 ft tall about 2 miles from where we were), and work the radios,,,,,,basically let gary concentrate on just flying.

 on our 3rd pass over target, i saw another cessna, about a mile off our left wing, co-alt, flying parallel to us. i called him out to gary, he noted it, and went back to flying. by the time i finished scanning and looked back, the other cessna was now about 3/4 of a mile, coming right for us, still  co-alt.
 i told gary, he looked, chopped throttle to idle, and gently pushed hte nose over, as i called to the other cessna alerting him we were there. never got a reply from the other cessna, but stan watched him fly right over us.......WAY too close. we leveled at 800 ft, looked for this guy, but couldn't find him.
 did a steep turn, and as the nose was swinging south, we saw him at treetop level about 3 miles out, heading away. we climbed back up to 1500, finished our runs, and headed back to the airport.
 
 i spotted the dude again, and he flew directly across short final at the airport, at treetop. we reported it on unicom, so the airport personal would meet the guy if he landed. never got his tail number.