Author Topic: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?  (Read 4224 times)

Offline WING47

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What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« on: December 11, 2009, 06:57:03 PM »
       I have a debatable question. What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills.

       Personally, I'm not trying to be by est but i think the one vs one proves more.
Only because it requires allot of physical and mental skill. However, getting, particularly
landing kills requires SA and mental skills.

       I'm not asking for facts but simply opinions.So feel free to state yours, I will
not argue.

Offline stodd

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2009, 06:58:21 PM »
1v1.
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Offline StokesAk

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 07:03:06 PM »
1v1 definitly, but then comes in the skill used to fight in a large furball and not die but still get kills.
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Offline WMLute

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 07:10:25 PM »
It depends on how the pilot is flying. 

It takes skill to survive in a multi-plane enviroment just as it takes skill to win in a 1 on 1.

But..

Take the timid picker type who is always landing 3-5 kills.  When you force a 1 on 1 on them they tend to die quick.  Anybody can fly like a weenie and land 3-5 kills every hop.
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Offline macleod01

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 07:11:07 PM »
Im divided on this one, I would say 1v1, simply because it shows that you can hold your own. But I have squadies who can land 15-20 kills WITHOUT picking or HOing or generally being timid. I would say that deserves equal praise.
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Offline Plazus

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2009, 07:16:16 PM »
It goes both ways.

There will be times when you may find yourself in a 1v1 situation. Your knowledge of E management along with ACM will get you out of a jamb. Your chances of getting killed are greater if there are other enemies nearby, as they would swoop in on you when youre low on E.

However, if youre in a situation where you are outnumbered, or have altitude advantage, good use of SA, patience, and ability to cycle through your targets as you make passes are going to pay off. You have to be able to "read" a fight and predict the enemies' next move before you swoop down to make a pass. Some would call this tactic "picking".

This can be a controversial subject when speaking of "fighter jocks" and "picktards". Assuming you know your aircraft very well, you would be confident in its flight characteristics, and therefore would likely be seeking a 1v1 engagement to try your hand out with ACM. Or you could fly smart, by maintaining an altitude advantage over other enemies and "pick" them off as they climb up to you. So what proves skill?

Regardless of what method you use, both requires skill to some degree. Some people fly big heavy planes, and prefer the "picking" method to stay alive. Then you have those people that completely resent this style of fight and prefer strict 1v1, because they feel that method is the rightful way of fighting, and proves skill.

To draw my conclusion-
It depends on the situation. Your ability to adapt to the fight will ultimately tell if youre skilled. In my personal opinion, it dont matter how you get a kill (except for hoing), only that you get a kill. In other words, a kill is a kill. There is no right or wrong. Fighting a 1v1 makes you no more skillfull than someone that knows how to BnZ.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 07:20:09 PM by Plazus »
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Offline Yeager

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2009, 07:30:24 PM »
two different skillsets,  But the guy that can survive and land multiple kills with no deaths is the more relevant in MA play.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 07:42:49 PM »
It depends on how the pilot is flying. 

It takes skill to survive in a multi-plane enviroment just as it takes skill to win in a 1 on 1.

But..

Take the timid picker type who is always landing 3-5 kills.  When you force a 1 on 1 on them they tend to die quick.  Anybody can fly like a weenie and land 3-5 kills every hop.


No, they can't or every weenie would do so. Apparently, the average player CAN'T even go to base under attack with a fast plane that has good firepower and bnz their way to 3-1 k/d...or even a 1-1 k/d...or they would.

We (meaning people who post on this forum) all tend to favor 1v1 "duels" as the end-all, be-all of skill. There is a reason for that. We are good at it, better than 90% of the playerbase. In the other thing, MA multibandit madness, gunnery becomes the most crucial skill. Gunnery doesn't relate to years of experience vs. natural talent the same way ACM does...gunnery is a thing where some "noobs" get it immediately, and some vets aren't very good at it way these years down the road. Trust me, nothing galls the mind of a vet more than the fact that some otherwise clueless "gamer" tends to land more kills per sortie than they do, even though they don't know a rolling scissors from pruning scissors, simply because they never miss a "pick".
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Offline Big Rat

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 07:49:25 PM »
There's skill in both.  One is knowing your aircraft extremely well and the other is understanding the situation very well.   And there is obviously overlap on both sets.  I've seen good pilots that are great at situational awareness, and great pilots that aren't very good at SA.  I however haven't seen a poor pilot great at SA, but that's becouse I believe SA is something that is learned through experience in combat.  You can teach someone to be a good 1v1 pilot, becouse it's kinda like a game of chess, with moves and counter moves. But teaching good SA is almost something that has to be self taught through personal experience.  The goal is to obviously be good at both.  I think the 1v1 guys get more of the glory but I don't think they are any more skilled the the great SA guys.

 :salute
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Offline crazyivan

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2009, 08:53:01 PM »
1v3 anyone can spend the time practicing maneuvers at 10k in the DA . :D
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Offline LYNX

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2009, 09:00:00 PM »
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you

Then 1v 3 is a good crack. :D

Offline mechanic

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2009, 09:03:26 PM »
A skilled 1 on 1 dueler already knows how to survive in the MA, but a skilled MA player does not really need to know how to 1 on 1.
It's a matter of progression 99.9% of the time, learning in order:

 Two week dweebishness-->MA skills-->Dueling skills.

You will rarely find a good dueler who sucks in the MA, but you will often find a skilled MA player who does suck in dueling 1 on 1.

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Offline Steve

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 09:05:34 PM »
A skilled 1 on 1 dueler already knows how to survive in the MA,

Nah. I know some guys who are ACM geniuses but have the SA of Stevie Wonder
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Offline mechanic

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2009, 09:09:29 PM »
Maybe so, but I would argue that they probably just don't care if they get killed. If you want to survive in the Ma the forumla is very simple. Stay higher and faster than all the enemy in the area. There is no one who does not understand this concept. Putting yourself in a bad situation intentionaly does not always equate poor SA, it most likely is a blatant disregard for survival. Even so, you are right, i think there must be some exceptions to my theory there.
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Offline Latrobe

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Re: What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2009, 09:24:18 PM »
I think a little of both. A 1v1 will show who among the two has more skills. Getting more kills could mean 1 of two things: 1 being they got a bunch of easy kills (picking, vulches, proxies, afkers, etc etc), or 2 being that they took on a larger force and survived.

There are some guys out there who can take on 10 to 1 odds and survive, which obviously takes more skills than just a 1 on 1. I remember seeing a video of someone taking on about 14 Spitfires in a 109 all alone, and the Spits had the alt advantage. The 109 pilot had superior skills and killed every one of them!  :O