What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills?

[grizz441]

Gunnery is not that hard in AH. In fact the 'taters' are even easier to use at high deflection if you know how to 'game' it. That involves a clear plastic overlay on your screen where you can make grease pencil marks and make lots of sorties in the DA to adjust it. So simple a hand puppet could do it but its pretty low in my estimation to have to do that. Not many people go to the trouble I hope because if you just fly a plane long enough the shots become second nature.

 

Now I dont know why HTC decided that the P-51D should be ENY 5. It doesnt make sense to me. If its based on speed alone then the K4 should be ENY 3 or lower and we all know its not based on ability to run (seems to be what grizz is claiming). I think that HTC bases ENY solely on arena performance and since every noob in the world flies the P-51 and spits before anything else and because it is a workhorse that does field leveling and every other task a fighter-attack plane can do and deliver the goods and still make it home... we get stuck with ENY.

I think Eny should be based primarily on 1. Deck cruise speed 2. Ammo Lethality 3. Ammo Quantity.  I think these 3 performance aspects will dictate arena performance at the highest accuracy.  The Spit16 is the exception.

Now what grizz does to get kills I would never care. I see he flies german iron and I dont feel I need that 'advantage' if you will but maybe he is fulfilling a role fantasy of some sort.

   
109s, Me262s, Me163s, and the Ta152 are probably the toughest planes in the game to dominate in.  How often do you see players land big kills in any of the planes listed?  Rarely.

How often do you see players land big kills in the planes you fly Chalenge i.e. Tempest, P51D, P47M?  Frequently.

I prefer attacking those large formations of heavy bombers with all the guns firing at me. Try that a few times and get those kills and land without taking any hits whatsoever... thats the best!

The easiest planes to kill bombers in are Jugs and Tempests.  You can blast them 1000 out before they even have a chance to get guns on you.  Try it in the 'easy mode' German planes that you seem to avoid like the plague.  Real cartoon men fly Luftwaffe.  

[JunkyII]

   Real cartoon men fly Luftwaffe.  

Nobody should disagree here.........especially the 38 and Hog easy mode dweebs

[dedalos]

Im divided on this one, I would say 1v1, simply because it shows that you can hold your own. But I have squadies who can land 15-20 kills WITHOUT picking or HOing or generally being timid. I would say that deserves equal praise.

Who are they? lol

[dedalos]

       I have a debatable question. What proves more skill, a one on one, or kills.

       Personally, I'm not trying to be by est but i think the one vs one proves more.
Only because it requires allot of physical and mental skill. However, getting, particularly
landing kills requires SA and mental skills.

       I'm not asking for facts but simply opinions.So feel free to state yours, I will
not argue.

Skill in what?

1 vs 1 shows skill in fighting

landing kills shows skill in many different things like vulching, avoiding fights, picking, fighting etc

[BnZs]

Grizz: The Spixteen is a 344mph plane that gets upped under vulches by absolute noobs and strafed on the runways all day and night. Yet is has similar k/d to the 365mph P-51 flow in a more "conservative" manner. That has got to tell us something...

I think Eny should be based primarily on 1. Deck cruise speed

Does this mean you would leave out WEP? Even though 5 minutes of it is usually ample and 9 minutes is an eternity of WEP for MA purposes? How...convenient.

2. Ammo Lethality 3. Ammo Quantity.  I think these 3 performance aspects will dictate arena performance at the highest accuracy.  The Spit16 is the exception.

This standard would inevitably shoot the Doras, 152s, K-4s, and Lalas near the top with the Ponies and 47Ms. This would be good in most ways though,  would be a heck of a lot more fair to lump all these planes together and I would be in 100% in favor of it if I didn't believe in the importance of maneuver.

If the Spit16 has other qualities good enough to make up for mediocre top speed, it is possible other planes do as well.

109s, Me262s, Me163s, and the Ta152 are probably the toughest planes in the game to dominate in.  How often do you see players land big kills in any of the planes listed?  Rarely.

163? Are we talking about the same plane here? Because I thought thought the 163 was the one that turns like, I don't know, probably a 109 and has the speed, climb, and acceleration of a rocket. Kurt 4s are great MA planes, and as for the Ta-152, I seriously think one big popularity inhibitor for the Tank is the bad write-up Soda gave it. Look at his articles on the P-51 and 152 respectively. I don't think he gives a quite fair picture of either, but his page is what everybody reads for advice on the planes coming into the game.

[Shuffler]

I see... for the record approximately 13 of my sorties were unproductive for one reason or another. While I do enjoy a good 30k attack on bombers they do tend to die or bail or in four cases pull the plug on the internet. I did learn you get A kill on bombers when they do that (if you are close enough) and you get to see who the noob is but aside from that... tough.

Thanks for the laugh though Shuffler (looking up SAPP I mean).  

     

If you take a short film you can see too. 

[Chalenge]

Grizz dont be silly. I have flown all of those planes and they are as 'easy mode' as any plane in the game. I think you are trying to write your own press releases. 

[gyrene81]

Grizz dont be silly. I have flown all of those planes and they are as 'easy mode' as any plane in the game. I think you are trying to write your own press releases. 

TA-152 at 5k is as easy mode as a P-51D or P-47M?    Sorry Chalenge but no...then again I don't agree with Grizz saying the 262 is as much of a challenge to win with as a 109.


I'm still trying to figure out the idea of skill in this thread...seems like a matter of experience combined with better computer/control equipment than anything related to "skill". And there is no difference in the challenge between 1v1 or 1v5...put any person in a plane he is very familiar with (i.e. favorite toonplane) and his chances of survival are good...if his connection to the server is faster than his opponent(s) so his toonplane reacts faster to input his chances of survival are better...combine those aspects with a high end control setup against an opponent using a simple twisty stick and keyboard...and he has much higher than average chance victory, even over multiple opponents. In the end it comes down to experience...knowing the strengths/weakenesses and playing the strengths against the opponents weaknesses. A person with just 2 weeks of stick time with the best setup money can buy, connected directly to the server doesn't stand a chance against someone with 5 years of experience on a laptop and a twisty stick and dsl connection.

Or is experience being called skill in this conversation?

[dedalos]

TA-152 at 5k is as easy mode as a P-51D or P-47M?    Sorry Chalenge but no...then again I don't agree with Grizz saying the 262 is as much of a challenge to win with as a 109.


I'm still trying to figure out the idea of skill in this thread...seems like a matter of experience combined with better computer/control equipment than anything related to "skill". And there is no difference in the challenge between 1v1 or 1v5...put any person in a plane he is very familiar with (i.e. favorite toonplane) and his chances of survival are good...if his connection to the server is faster than his opponent(s) so his toonplane reacts faster to input his chances of survival are better...combine those aspects with a high end control setup against an opponent using a simple twisty stick and keyboard...and he has much higher than average chance victory, even over multiple opponents. In the end it comes down to experience...knowing the strengths/weakenesses and playing the strengths against the opponents weaknesses. A person with just 2 weeks of stick time with the best setup money can buy, connected directly to the server doesn't stand a chance against someone with 5 years of experience on a laptop and a twisty stick and dsl connection.

Or is experience being called skill in this conversation?

Experience is part of your skill set.  It is how you learn.  Through experience.

I wont even touch the rest of junk you wrote about connecting directly to the server and equipment.

[mechanic]

I have dsl connection  in England UK (ping ~170), I have a cheap twisty stick and keyboard setup. I have beat people who live near the HTC server and fly with full hotas. Does this make me extra skillz than if i lived in Texas and had a better setup? 

sweet!

[gyrene81]

Experience is part of your skill set.  It is how you learn.  Through experience.

Experience is not a skill no matter how you attempt to define it. You cannot develop the skill of experience.

I wont even touch the rest of junk you wrote about connecting directly to the server and equipment.

LOL...so you would try to say that 100ms response time to input versus 5ms response time would have zero impact?    I suppose someone with 5 years of experience that has a full CH flight setup with a 24 inch monitor wouldn't have an edge over someone with only a year playing on a 15 in laptop with a Logitech Wingman either...  

I have dsl connection  in England UK (ping ~170), I have a cheap twisty stick and keyboard setup. I have beat people who live near the HTC server and fly with full hotas. Does this make me extra skillz than if i lived in Texas and had a better setup? 

sweet!

I dunno...maybe it means your lag caused them problems trying to hit you...     I bet it's pretty fun when you get those kills too... 

[dedalos]

Experience is not a skill no matter how you attempt to define it. You cannot develop the skill of experience.


LOL...so you would try to say that 100ms response time to input versus 5ms response time would have zero impact?    I suppose someone with 5 years of experience that has a full CH flight setup with a 24 inch monitor wouldn't have an edge over someone with only a year playing on a 15 in laptop with a Logitech Wingman either...  


I dunno...maybe it means your lag caused them problems trying to hit you...     I bet it's pretty fun when you get those kills too... 

OK, define skill for me.

Explain why do you think lag plays any role here.  Response of what to what?  Packets come and go every 250ms

The guy with the 5 years will destroy the two weeker.  Because of experience and skill.  What does the lap top have to do with anything?


Look, if you suck in this game, try harder.  Dont look for excuses 

[SPKmes]

Experience is not a skill no matter how you attempt to define it. You cannot develop the skill of experience.


LOL...so you would try to say that 100ms response time to input versus 5ms response time would have zero impact?    I suppose someone with 5 years of experience that has a full CH flight setup with a 24 inch monitor wouldn't have an edge over someone with only a year playing on a 15 in laptop with a Logitech Wingman either... 

I would say you are right in the fact that experience is not a skill..however skill is refined with experience.

as for equipment...there are guys here who kick butt using a mouse...equipment makes things easier but doesn't make it better

My ping rate is at 182 always has been......sure there can be anomalies from time to time but it is neither here nor there....maybe I'm just used to this. (and I'm managing to improve in my ability/skill...a bit stagnated at the moment though.

[mechanic]

I dunno...maybe it means your lag caused them problems trying to hit you...     I bet it's pretty fun when you get those kills too... 

As far as i know, the only difference it causes is that when someone from Texas shoots me it looks like he hit just behind my aircraft. At first i thought it was something wierd then I realised it was just that his FE showed me to be a few yards behind where i thought I was. I got used to this and without even thinking about it I assume that I must turn slightly early than I expect, etc. See what i mean? I don't think lag has any effect. Also liek Tongs said, I have had my butt kicked by someone flying on a mouse before, control setup and connection have very little to do with anything, just in my opinion.

[BnZs]

TA-152 at 5k is as easy mode as a P-51D or P-47M? 

All of these planes are pretty much equally dead in average hands being on the defensive on the deck against a large crowd of bandits. But all I think they are all equally useful as bnz/energy fighters.

Well, Ta-152 has 9minutes of WEP, compared to the P-47M's 5 minutes before it becomes a 330mph under-powered pig. And the WEP on the Jumo replenishes much quicker when not in use. The Ta-152 retains energy much better under Gs than either plane, and while its 30MM cannon is harder to hit with than .50s, it also can destroy any fighter with one ping, as opposed to the nothing or mere damage that will often come from .50s, especially the mere 6 of the P-51. The 152 is also blessed with 1/3rd more ammo for the tater gun than the K4 AND a pair of potent twenties to back up the 30MM, take long shots with, and which are liable to hit the enemy plane if you miscalculate the lead on the 30mm abit.

Really, it comes down to which shooting style are you better at, are you a steady enough hand to snipe from 500 yards or do you have to stick the gun right up their tailpipe? If the latter, the 30's insta-death lethality gives it an edge. Of course, we all know that for 90% of the players, splitting the difference and using a 20mm cannon or 4 is easiest...

There is nothing terribly daunting about using the Ta-152 to get kills in the same manner as the Pony is typically used. I also don't see don't think its inferior as a dogfighter to either a Pony or a Jug.