Author Topic: Aircraft Performances (general) (Read 329 times)

OLtos · « **on:** October 04, 1999, 08:17:00 PM »

I just brought this in from the general discussion section.

I would like to open a discussion on sources.
Many of the messages I am seeing on BB are related to what any given bird or piece of equipment could "really" do. Some bug reports have to do with the same. If we are going to able to give the best input on these areas we should know what standards we are testing to. That means knowing the source material for the flight performances of the different aircraft.

I persoanlly have Francis Dean's "America's 100,000" and Jane's "Fighting Aircraft of World War II." I am interested in acquiring more sources.

I would be very much interested in knowing just what sources HiTech Creations has used. If I am going to go get more source material to help me test I don't want to get material that is not relevant to the flight model being produced for this history based flightsim.

Lastly, for anything claiming any historicity at all a bibliography is considered a good thing. If one is available and I have just missed it, I'll shut up now and go get it. Just point me to where it is.

thanks.

wells · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 1999, 08:53:00 PM »

Anything by William Green is pretty good and don't forget Eric Brown as well. Do a search on Amazon.com, you should find some titles, although some are out of print!

Pyro · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 1999, 12:43:00 AM »

What kind of references are you looking for? Broad based, specific to single aircraft, performance figures, art & markings, manufacturing info, unit history, etc? Run it by me and I can probably give you some good leads. I'd also be happy to give my two cents, if applicable, on anything you're looking to purchase.

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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Vermillion · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 1999, 05:12:00 AM »

Does anyone know of an equivalent book of "American's Hundred Thousand" for German, Japanese, Russian or British aircraft ?

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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), *MOL*, Men of Leisure, Goldlandia
AW's: (verm) ACCS, Aerial Crowd Control Services, Cland

OLtos · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 1999, 10:55:00 PM »

In Reply to Pyro's question:
I am interested in reading up on the source material that you guys used for the game. As a tester, (I have a few years of black box software testing on my resume), one of the things to be tested could be what we called a technical verification.
In other words your spec says, (as a hypothetical example), that the La5FN can do X MPH in level flight, but (again hypothetically) when I fly it, the airplane is faster. This could be tested for. I even enjoy just cruising around without engaging in combat! There might be other things to test for.

In one instance, already, I have noticed that ALL your single engine planes suffer from torque factors pulling aircraft to the left on takeoff. This should not be the case with Russian and British aircraft designs and the P-51 with it's British designed engine. These aircraft engines rotate in the opposite direction to American designs. Torque effects should pull to the right.
This last may just be a matter of simplification, I certainly have no problem with that, but it is an example of the kind of testing that can be done.
Is there any chance of you guys releasing the performance data you are using as sources? If you consider it proprietary, I am familiar with and amenable to non-disclosure agreements.
Or, should I just heshup on the matter?
<-- GRINN -->

Bad Omen · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 1999, 11:06:00 PM »

OLtos:
Hmmm, I believe all Merlin engined craft, like the Spit and P51 did go left, until the advent of the Griffon engined Spits, like the MkXIV. The Griffon rotated the opposite way, requiring left rudder input. This is modeled correctly in WB's IX vs XIV, which I believe was Pyro's last plane set. I do not believe he would have missed that.

As for references, a good on for WB or AH is Capt. Eric Brown's "Duels in the Sky: WWII Naval Aircraft in Combat." What makes this book interesting is that Cpt. Brown flew all these aircraft, he gives idiosyncrocies of each, then compares how they would have flown against each other and what a pilot should use to their advantages or to watch out for. What really makes it neat for WB/AH pilots is that he compares planes head to head that would never have seen combat: Hellcat vs 190D-9, Hellcat vs Spit IX, Zeke vs FW190A-4, P51 vs Spit XIV, etc. An interesting read.

OLtos · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 1999, 09:09:00 PM »

Thanks Bad Omen I'll check it out, see if Amazon can find a copy for me.

[This message has been edited by OLtos (edited 10-07-1999).]

OLtos · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 1999, 09:14:00 PM »

I just did some checking on photos. Seems I was mistaken on the P-51 at anyrate. It's prop turns the same way as other US fighters in my sources. OOPS.

Pyro · « **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 1999, 05:55:00 PM »

Most WWII engines turned clockwise when viewed from the cockpit. There are exceptions to this, notably with some Soviet and British aircraft. However, no country used counterclockwise engines exclusively.

As for sources, it's not just simply a matter of finding a performance number and plugging it in. The planes perform a certain way because of their power, weight, and aerodynamic characteristics. What I try to do is sift through a lot of information and try to reliably fill in as many pieces of the puzzle as I can. My goal is to come out with a model that makes mathematical sense and corresponds closely to how that plane should perform.

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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

OLtos · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 1999, 08:38:00 PM »

OK, cool.

Thanks for the heads up on the engine rotation thing. I love looking at the details. I know, I'm weird. But I love the planes and just studying them is a treat for me.

As an Historian, it is really good to hear that you haven't limited yourself to one source. What I would like to know is if you have a bibliography of the sources that you use, or even just a title list. As a tester I would find that really helpfull. It would give me some baselines to test against. Which implies that I would shell out for my own copies of the books I could afford. I am truly interested in testing the plane performances and such. Also such a source list gets all the critics on the same sheet of music. Had the Air Warrior people been open about their sources it would have saved them huge amounts of spurious and sometimes viscious criticism.

Anyway any titles you could reveal would be welcome. As a start can I use Francis Dean's "Americas 100,000" as a baseline for testing against? (always keeping in mind that I could only test for gross discrepancies because I am not privy to the decision making process for the fine details).

Thanks for listening,
-OLtos