Author Topic: Fw 190A Loadouts  (Read 1220 times)

funked

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 1999, 11:38:00 AM »
ROFL Bullethead!  Whip-hits in the cockpit eh?

Offline Pyro

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 1999, 12:12:00 PM »
Don't forget about me.  Seriously, for any of you archive diggers out there, I'm always looking for more info.  



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Offline Jekyll

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 1999, 08:15:00 AM »
 
My old and tattered copy of 'Janes Fighting Aircraft of WW2' lists the performance difference using MW50 as follows:

Climb to 32,800ft without MW50 - 26.5 mins
Climb to 32,800ft with MW50 - 16.5 mins
Service ceiling without MW50 - 33,800 feet
Service ceiling with MW50 - 37,400 feet

Interestingly, MW 50 only added 8mph to the top speed.

As for armament, the A8 supposedly had the option of two 30mm Mk108 cannon in the outer wings, instead of the normal Mg151/20 cannon.

Are we going to see the 30mm's as an option Pyro???

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funked

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 1999, 01:08:00 AM »
Jekyll:  MW50 was used as an antidetonant.  It allowed higher boost to be used without fear of engine problems.  But at high altitudes (where top speeds are reached), the supercharger is not capable of overboosting the engine much, it at all.  So the MW 50 benefit was small up there.

weretiger

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 1999, 04:23:00 AM »
pyro,werewolf, funked
did you recieve the file on the D9 ?
I hope it was usefull ....

I an still waiting for the US archive to arrive.

One small question
how do you calculte the roll rate, the instant turnig rate and the constant turning rate.
I know that normally they are mesured  but tere is way to calculate them.
How can i have a good aproximation i would like to have an order of idea for the non explicitely described version of the FW190 ?
thanks
(i have few way of doing it but it is really complex)
I have the speed curve/climb curve for the A3 to A9 (D9 D12 and TA152 H1 so i can "easilly" get the darg coefficient for combat/climb WEP and with mw50 or gm1 .
If interested i can post those (it will take time (the photocopy are pretty crap.....)

Offline Vermillion

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 1999, 07:51:00 AM »
Weretiger, how can you calculate the drag coefficent from the speed/climb charts?

I have been doing alot of reading on acceleration/drag lately, and I understand how to compute the parasitic drag given the drag coefficent, wing area, and the correction factor (which is different for each aircraft, I understand), but I am still trying to figure out how to calculate the induced drag.

I am also having problems finding drag coefficents and correction factors for each individual aircrafts.

Any help would be appreciated.


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Offline hitech

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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 1999, 08:56:00 AM »
You can't verm. You need more data than just climb/speed charts to calculate those co's.

HiTech

Werewolf

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 1999, 09:41:00 AM »
Weretiger, alas i haven't received the email until now. Would you be so kind to send it again to marc.butz@technet.net?

Thanks in advance

werewo

funked

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 1999, 02:38:00 AM »
Weretiger thanks for the info!

I have asked my friend Wells to attempt to answer your questions about turn performance.


Offline Pyro

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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 1999, 01:06:00 PM »
Weretiger:  I haven't received it.  As to your question, it would take quite a calculation to come up with something like max sustained turn.      

Verm:  Induced drag coefficient is:

LiftCo^2/Aspect Ratio * pi

The pi value is representative of an elliptical airfoil, other shapes will have a slightly smaller value.



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Offline wells

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 1999, 01:19:00 PM »
In order to figure out turn performance, you need a few numbers.  You need an accurate stall speed at a given weight.  Eric Brown gives the A4 a clean stall of 127 mph.  Weight is probably around 8700 lbs for the version that he flew with the bomb racks removed.  Using the lift equation, you can then figure out the maximum lift coefficient (which is used in a max rate turn). The lift equation looks like this

Lift = 1/2 density * cl * V^2 * area
Drag = 1/2 density * cd * V^2 * area

If you know the max cl, just plug in the V, area and density to get the lift in a turn.

Turn radius = V^2 * mass / Force

The turn rate depends on how fast the plane flies the circle.  The sustained turning speed is hard to figure out, without knowing the maximum thrust values for any given speed.  It's not constant.  You can however, determine the induced drag coefficient by the following formula

Cdi = cl^2 / (pi * aspect ratio)

Induced drag will be highest at high angles of attack.  

If you know the thrust value at the maximum level speed (where induced drag is minimal), you can figure out the zero-lift drag coefficient (cd0), but this is not an easy process.  Putting the 2 drag coefficients together will give you a total drag coefficient.  Where max thrust = drag at max angle of attack will be the sustained turning speed.

There's an article in the Jan 99 issue of Sport Aviation that gives the Dora a drag coefficient of 0.0063 for 761.6 sq ft of wetted area (or 0.024 for 197 sq ft of wing area) at cruise lift coefficient.  

I've done some work on thrust values but they may not be totally accurate.  Go here
 http://www.iaw.com/~general6/flightmodels.htm
 


Offline Pyro

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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 1999, 01:49:00 PM »
Wells:

Don't buy that 127mph stall speed figure.  If that were the case the FW would have a cl around 1.07 and the A8 would have a stall speed around 134.  You'd need almost 190 mph just to hold a 60 degree bank without stalling.



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weretiger

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 1999, 01:57:00 PM »
pyro
i resent it today you should have it by now.

On the value topic
There is a cool site.
It express, the drag in function of the drag with F plate equivalent number and e the oswald number.
 http://web.usna.navy.mil/~dfr/technical_flying.html

I am still strugling with the math.

One stupid question.
In the german test there is a collumn called
Roll-Strartstrecke in meters giving 350/650
any ideas ?
I suspect this is the distance to perform a full roll at combat speed/WEP ?

An other stupid one
How do you calculate the trust when you have the BHP and the efficiency coeff for the propeller?

[This message has been edited by weretiger (edited 10-28-1999).]

Offline Pyro

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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 1999, 02:11:00 PM »
That link doesn't appear to be valid.

No idea, perhaps one of the German-spekkers can help.

First convert Brake Horsepower to Thrust Horsepower by multiplying BHP by prop efficiency.  

Thrust = THP * 550 / Velocity feet per second

 

   

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weretiger

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Fw 190A Loadouts
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 1999, 02:44:00 PM »
A4 perfs
For the A4
This was originally a A4 U8
The English removed the two extra 300 lt. External tank and their wing faring. They used the planes as a pure fighter FW190 A4 without the wing guns. Which is actually right
The weight of the plane was 8470 lbs.
1750 hp max in climb combat
1970 in wep  

Those value are confirmed by the US testing of the A5  

climb/combat   WEP   Climb (combat/climb)
ground      335    352   
5000   360    371   1' 40''
10 000   359   365   2' 30''
15000   380   390   5'
20000   401   415   7'35''
25 000   390   410   10'30
30 000   345   395   15'

Max speed: sustainable for 3 minutes (rmp 2700 )
 420 @ 20 800 feet

Max speed climb/combat sustainable for 30 minutes (rpm 2400)

401 @ 20 000 feet

Rate of climb
Initial rate of climb (0ft to 5000) 3600fr/min
Average (0 to 2000) 2700 ft / minutes
above 20000 to 30000 1316 ft/ min
nb 30 k seems to be the operating celling

Those info are coming from Air 40 150 and 151.