Author Topic: RAID  (Read 1576 times)

Offline Ruler2

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RAID
« on: December 20, 2009, 06:12:55 PM »
RAID. Which version is the fastest?  Which version is the safest for data retention? Which one is best for gaming? Would I have to use RAID to use multiple HDDs at the same time? Will it cause any hardware or software problems?  :headscratch:   I know next to nothing about RAID, and could use some help as I install and configure my multiple hard drives. Would you guys mind tellin me some of the stuff I need to know before I set this up?

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Re: RAID
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2009, 06:19:08 PM »
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: RAID
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2009, 06:29:02 PM »
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Offline Ghastly

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Re: RAID
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2009, 07:40:35 PM »
The problem Ruler2 is that we can only speak generalities given that you are never specific about what you have, or intend to use.   

Generally, striping (RAID 1) is higher performing.  Take 4 drives, put them in a RAID 1 array, and you theorietically get 4 times the throughput.  Except that in a Windows environment generally you don't, because of inefficiencies in the hardware/software used.  Early benchmarks for a 2 drive RAID 1 array in Windows saw little to no improvement over a single drive.   

Generally, RAID 0 is "safest". Except that sometimes, it's no better than a single drive because almost anything you do will be likely to do will be fakeraid - Not really RAID at all because the OS drivers do all the work.  And often times when one drive fails the other one get's dirtied up by the failure such that your supposedly good mirror is junk too.   And since you often can't move the drives to another device -sometimes even an IDENTICAL device - and read the raid array, you often end up with an increased risk of data loss over a single drive configured to a "standard" SATA controller because of all the things that can go wrong with Windows fakeraid itself, on top of what can go wrong with the drives mechanically.

Generally, I'd consider RAID 5 a poor choice at best because it's going to be poorly implemented at best on the class of RAID controller someone who has decided to do RAID without knowing anything about it is going to use. It was a compromise to begin with - better performance than mirroring at less cost than mirroring while still maintaining redundancy.

And for gaming, RAID doesn't really add much - most games don't do a lot of disk IO except upon load, and so you don't see a lot of overall performance increase.

In fact, if what you want is high performance and redundancy on the cheap, get 2 drives and periodically use a tool like Ghost or Clonezilla to duplicate your work drive to  the backup - and if the primary drive fails you can switch to the mirrored drive and be back in operation at the point you last mirrored them.

And for every generality I've given you, someone can come along and give you a specific instance where it's completely wrong.




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Offline Noir

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Re: RAID
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2009, 08:25:57 PM »
And for every generality I've given you, someone can come along and give you a specific instance where it's completely wrong.

Raid 0 and Raid 1 are two drives minimum, Raid 0+1 is four. Raid 0 will increase the speed of writing and reading info if the hard drive sectors you are manipulating are next to each other, ie large files. Games and Windows most the time use a lot of small files allover the disc, wich makes the Raid0 uneffective for common uses. A good single Velociraptor hard drive will do a better job. Duplicating your important DATA to different hard drives and computers is the simplest and most efficient way to save stuff, and it can protect you against accidents like fires.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: RAID
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2009, 08:30:53 PM »

And for every generality I've given you, someone can come along and give you a specific instance where it's completely wrong.


ROFL..... I bet your completely right on this aspect  :D


Ruler2, here is another weblink to help inform you on the differences of RAID setups and why/why not you may/maynot want to use 1 or the others...

Understanding RAID technology from IBM Systems Software Information Center

http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/eserver/v1r2/index.jsp?topic=/diricinfo/fqy0_craidint.html

with that posted.... I myself have always used RAID 1  , on top of doing regular scheduled backups just for the same reason Ghastly posted about even mirrored ( RAID 1 ) HD's both can become infected. although none of mine have ever had any problems ( knock on wood --- YET..... and that is going on 1 .5 yrs for my newest PC, and for my older PC it has lasted for now going since 2003........ and yes I use nothing but the dreadful despised & hated Hitiachi HD's only  :D )

hope this helps.........
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Offline Ruler2

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Offline Ruler2

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Re: RAID
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2009, 12:09:22 AM »
The problem Ruler2 is that we can only speak generalities given that you are never specific about what you have, or intend to use.   

Because the system I have/ intend to use is broke and I am not concrete in all my hardware choices yet  :D

Offline Chalenge

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Re: RAID
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2009, 03:58:38 AM »
How much money do you have to spend on JUST the RAID?
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: RAID
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2009, 04:17:23 AM »
And for every generality I've given you, someone can come along and give you a specific instance where it's completely wrong.

Doesn't take even a specific but general: Raid0 is fast but unsafe, raid1 is safe but doesn't improve performance. You got them backwards.

Raid0 (striping) divides data to two harddrives increasing performance and giving use of total capacity of both hdd's.

Raid1 (mirroring) copies the same data to two harddrives giving use of only single hdd capacity but bringing redundancy as a bonus.
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Offline Bino

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Re: RAID
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2009, 04:32:07 AM »
Here is a good two-page RAID primer. It's so simple, even a Pointy-Haired Boss can understand it:

http://www.adaptec.com/NR/rdonlyres/84938C6A-1431-4C78-8E08-8DFA064A7F34/0/abc_RAID_LRes.pdf


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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: RAID
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2009, 06:32:06 AM »
Bino, and anyone else pointing to documentation of companies who sell RAID solutions, you need to understand they will always be pro-RAID.  They are in the job of selling the hardware.

The RAID implementations for a PC is just another problem waiting to happen.  It is a bandaid.  To have a proper RAID solution you have to start with the filesystem design.  The Windows filesystems are not designed for RAID.

You are better off installing multiple drives and keeping your volatile data on one drive and the OS on another drive.  I go one more step and add a network fileserver and backup the volatile data once a week to it.  The file server is based on SCSI drives, which typically will outlast any SATA drive available in the market today.  Plus there is some actual data recovery you can do with SCSI drives you cannot do with SATA drives.

I have not lost one bit of data in 20+ years of running computers.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 07:45:42 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Ghastly

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Re: RAID
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2009, 07:41:22 AM »
Doesn't take even a specific but general: Raid0 is fast but unsafe, raid1 is safe but doesn't improve performance. You got them backwards.

Raid0 (striping) divides data to two harddrives increasing performance and giving use of total capacity of both hdd's.

Raid1 (mirroring) copies the same data to two harddrives giving use of only single hdd capacity but bringing redundancy as a bonus.

Doh!!!!

You're absolutely right - I wrote the response quickly before jumping online last night, and just before submitting the post changed most of the references from "striped" and "mirrored" to "RAID 1" and "RAID 0" as an afterthought.  Perhaps I should have stuck to flying last night... :D

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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: RAID
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 09:29:37 AM »
Doh!!!!

You're absolutely right - I wrote the response quickly before jumping online last night, and just before submitting the post changed most of the references from "striped" and "mirrored" to "RAID 1" and "RAID 0" as an afterthought.  Perhaps I should have stuck to flying last night... :D

<S>




Hey believe me I know - my first experiment (many many years ago) with raid 0 ended up with a two-week old hdd dying on me and naturally I had no backup. Some learn the hard way.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: RAID
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 10:16:41 AM »
Bino, and anyone else pointing to documentation of companies who sell RAID solutions, you need to understand they will always be pro-RAID.  They are in the job of selling the hardware.

The RAID implementations for a PC is just another problem waiting to happen.  It is a bandaid.  To have a proper RAID solution you have to start with the filesystem design.  The Windows filesystems are not designed for RAID.

Yes Sir, I was not suggesting he go with RAID, I was just offering information for him to read up on regarding what RAID is and how it works. Although the link I provided is kind of about RAID on a Server to start with. I just tried to provide something he could read to understand the different levels of RAID

I myself just use it for Redundancy and probably will get rid of it on both PC's once the 5 year span runs out ( since I am disabled now and not working anymore ) to where I am required to keep specific Reports, CAD / Blueprint drawings and such for Local/State offices or Mil bases where I have designed some mechanical, refrigeration & HVAC projects....

I agree it is prob a waste of time for most people for any type of RAID.....and the often found onboard / Software Windows Driven RAID controllers is not really up to par for a true RAID setup as well..... this last part is my personal opinion....

my apologys for not making this clear in my original post

hope this helps  :cheers:
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