Lancs are Fast

[Karnak]

I vaguely recall that for the WWII RAF service ceiling was defined as the point where an aircraft's climb rate drops below 500ft per minute.

[Angus]

You'd be correct there Karnak. My old great uncle from the RAF joked with this, saying that the service ceiling was the limit of climb that modern day aircraft(well Cessna etc) would consider as a normal ROC. 500 was then number.
He also observed a Lancaster doing a loop. At quite some altitude. Also said that they could turn incredibly well.

[Lusche]

So 24-25k service ceiling @500ft/min sustained climb. Well, in my example above, I was doing 300ft/min only at 25...

[RTHolmes]

... because our lanc doesnt have the WEP it should

[Chalenge]

I vaguely recall that for the WWII RAF service ceiling was defined as the point where an aircraft's climb rate drops below 500ft per minute.

Strange the R.A.F. manual A.P. 22062A-P.N Pilots and Flight Engineers Notes - Lancaster states 100 ft/min.

If the R.A.F. and U.S.A.A.F used the same terminology for two different values it would get very confusing very quickly.

[RTHolmes]

like the gallon or the ton?

[Simba]

Absolutely. And the same applies to the calibration of ASIs, where the difference between knots (sea-miles per hour) and mph (statute miles per hour) led to the loss of an entire squadron of Hurricanes intended for Malta when the Admiral flew them off too soon and they ran out of fuel short of the island.

Whoops.

 

[Jayhawk]

Sorry but your information is incorrect. Service ceiling for any aircraft is that at which an aircraft can no longer sustain a climb rate above 100 feet per minute. It does not mean that the aircraft is incapable of climbing further.

Anybody know the historical definition of "service ceiling"? I know today it's often "altitude where the plane is able to sustain a 100ft/min climb" - but is that the same definition that's being used for WWII bombers?
Just for the record, in AHII a Lanc that took off with 50% fuel and full bombload is getting a 300ft/min climbrate at 25k. It takes more than half an hour to get that high.

I actually had no idea that was the definition, don't worry, I've very aware of my ignorance on a lot of this stuff.   I try my best to not pretend I know what I'm talking about though, everyone slips right?  You figure, ceiling, you know, the top.  Every time I hit my ceiling I just get a headache...

Thanks for the edumacation.

[Angus]

Absolutely. And the same applies to the calibration of ASIs, where the difference between knots (sea-miles per hour) and mph (statute miles per hour) led to the loss of an entire squadron of Hurricanes intended for Malta when the Admiral flew them off too soon and they ran out of fuel short of the island.

Whoops.

 

I have that one in a book. 1.852m vs 1.609. If you guys want the account, I'll take the effort and post it

[Stoney]

Don't forget that "Service Ceiling" is computed at a certain weight.  I'd bet that, at that weight in game, the service ceiling of the Lancaster would conform almost exactly to the book value.

If the Lanc ups with 50% and has already dropped his bombs, my guess is he's a couple of thousand pounds (or more) under that weight. 

Weight is a killer at altitude.  If you do take a 190A8, don't take any of the extra guns.  On the other hand, Snailman's recommendation of a Jug, Ta, or other high-altitude performer is a good one.

[Anaxogoras]

Most are ignoring that the Lanc was doing 315mph in level flight.

[Karnak]

Most are ignoring that the Lanc was doing 315mph in level flight.

That information is assumed and not supplied anywhere in this thread.

[Anaxogoras]

[Stoney]

(Image removed from quote.)

I think Karnak meant that "level flight" was assumed, and not the 315mph speed.  Unfortunately, the film doesn't show vertical speed.

[Karnak]

I think Karnak meant that "level flight" was assumed, and not the 315mph speed.  Unfortunately, the film doesn't show vertical speed.

That is correct.  We don't know that he isn't in a shallow dive, or had recently done a shallow dive, to reach that speed.