Since both of these planes are something akin to underdogs and at first appearance seem pretty similar, I decided to test and compare them. All the data here is reproduceable by anyone with the time (or in my case, a busted ch fighterstick).
All speeds are in TAS.
Qualitative and quantitative aspects of both fighters will be examined.
ClimbThe climb test was conducted from standing still on the ground, timing up to 20k, with full fuel, 8 .50's for the 47 and 4*20's for the 190a8.
P-47:
0-5k: 2:45
5-10k: 4:57
10-15k: 7:15
15-20k 9:42
The P-47 climbed away at an initial climb rate somewhere around 2.25, and maintained this climb rate throghout the climb to 20, only dropping very slightly.
190A8:
0-5k: 2:26
5-10k: 4:52
10-15k: 7:32
15-20k: 10:24
The A8 started off with an initial climb rate of around 2.5, a tad bit more. It steadily dropped; at 6.5k it was down to 2.25, and at 8k 2.0. It went down further as climb increased.
Comparing climb rates: The 190A8 has a better initial climb rate and is significantly faster to 5k. Above 5k, the P47 climbs better and as the altitude increases, the difference becomes greater.
Deck accelerationFrom standstill to 300mph
P-47: 1:37
A8: 1:21
The A8 accelerates faster than the 47 on the deck by a good margin
From 200mph to 300mph, altitude 15k:
Aircraft where stable at 200mph, no wep used.
P47: = 0:57
A8: = 1:06
The P-47 outaccelerates the 190A8 at 15k, and the margin rises as altitude increases.
Dive acceleration:
both aircraft were taken to 20, rolled inverted and a 3 g pull was made til the aircraft was heading straight down. Speed was taken as the aircraft passed 15k.
P-47: 500 mph+
190A8: 500mph+
Equal.
Another test was conducted; 5k, roll over, 3g pull to vertical position, 5 g pullout at 2k, measure speed. Speed was identical for the both; 400mph or so.
The 190A8 is superior in terms of accelerationat low to moderate altitudes after which the P-47 gains the edge.
SpeedSpeed tests were done by getting the aircraft up to decent speed with wep, then letting wep off and waiting for speed to stabilize. it is possible that some erros have snuck in here.
Deck speed:
P-47: 325 mph
190A8: 325 mph
Both aircraft are capable of roughly the same speeds on the deck.
20k speed:
P-47: 375 mph+
190A8: 365 mph
The P-47 is 10 mph faster than the 190A8 at altitude. Errors might have snuck in but it's my belief that the P-47 is somewhat faster.
Zoom climb:Stable at 400mph, 3g pull up to 45 degree climb, mark alt when speed = 150.
Note: these might be a bit off, as my stick is spikey.
P-47: 5.6k gain
190A8: 6k gain
Same setup, 90 degree climb:
P-47 4.8
A8: 4.5
Nothing conclusively can be said of this due to stick spikes, other than they are quite similar.
Deceleration/drag300mph stable speed at 5k, chop throttle. Measure time to slow to 200mph when level.
P-47: 0:29
A8: 0:23
The P-47 appears to have less drag and keep speed better when at idle throttle.
WeaponsP-47:
8 .50's; 1700 rounds inner, same amount outher
190A8:
2*13mm, total 950 rounds
4*20, total 780; 500 of which are in inner cannons
There seems to be a bug in the 13mm of the 190; cannons can hit at beyond d350, but 13mm very rarely do.
The P-47 has a powerful armament of 8 .50's. While they lack the InstantDeath(tm) capability of cannons, they have a good rate of fire, a very high muzzle velocity and an excellent range. Effective killing range is up to 600, more if the pilot is a good shot. there's relatively little need for lead compared to the A8 and a greater amount of ammo. It surpasses the A8 in long range shots and deflection shots, but packs less of a punch when range is small.
The 190A8 packs a better punch for close range shots. Its guns have limited range though with a maximum reasonable killing range of d375-d400. Muzzle velocity is low and a lot of lead is needed in snapshots.
Roll rateAt low and moderate speeds, the 190A8 has a far superior roll rate to the P-47.The advantage is lowered as speed gets high and above 500, the difference isn't that noticeable.
Turning capabilityThis is a qualitative judgement from my side. It appears tto me that the instantaneous turn rate is quite similar, with a possible edge to the 190A8. At low speeds, the P-47 is better and can deploy flaps at a higher speed.
Low speed and stall performanceAgain a qualitative assesment.
The P-47 handles slightly better at low speeds and has the ability to pop flaps at a higher speed. A8 can pop flaps at 190 mph; I tried pooping flaps at 210 with no problem in the P-47. Low speed stalls are much more gentle in the P-47; the A8 stalls at high speed and has a tendency to viciously snap roll. The P-47 gives more warning.
Structural integrityThe P-47 can take more battle damage than the 190A8, and its engine runs for longer with an oil leak. Both planes are quite capable of ripping wings at high speeds; the 190A8 does so at lower g-forces than the P47 (assuming same speed). Both planes seem capable of flying with a wingtip missing.
TrimThe 190A8 requires less trim than the P47. Both are quite stable.
EnduranceWhere the 190A8 is the mdiget in terms of legs, the P-47 is a giant. It has much superior endurance to the A8 and for most sorties would not require a drop tank.
Air to ground ordnanceThe P-47 is a true beast when it comes to air to ground ordnance; a maximum loadout is 2*1000lb + 1*500lb + 10 5" HVAR rockets.
Loadout for the 190A8 consists of either 1 250kg bomb or one 500kg. The 190A8 has destructive 30mm guns option for jabo missions, but is much inferior in the air to ground role; in terms of armoured vehicles, the 190 can take out one, whereas the P-47 can hit three with bombs and then finish off more with the rockets. It lacks cannons for hardened structures. however, the .50's are excellent ack killers.
Cockpit visibilityCOckpit visibility in both aircraft is excellent, with the P-47 having a better one. The slider bar in the A8 obstructs front up view and even with some moving around it can still be in the way. Still, the A8 cockpit is very good in terms of visibility.
LooksThe P-47 is butt ugly. It's a huge fat overweight American former beauty queen with an enormous engine. in short, it looks like a pregnant hippo on her way to the grocery store.
The 190A8 however, is the very definition of sleek and dangerous beatuy. Sharklike, it possesses a mystical combination of beauty, brutality and raw danger. If it was an animal, it'd be a great white shark.
ConclusionI did this comparison because I wanted to avoid putting my foot in my mouth again.
The two aircraft are incredibly well matched; the most noticeable differences being the a8's roll rate advantage/P-47's better low speed handlings. Yet they have two different approaches; the 190A8 is at its best below 10k, whereas the P-47 performs very well above 10k. The 190A8 has a good, shortrange punch requiring lots of lead, whereas the P-47 has a longer range, but weaker punch requiring substantially less lead. The P-47 far outperforms the 190A8 in a jabo role. Some of the difference is compensated if the 190A8 carries 30mm cannons.
One thing is true for both; pilots flying these aircraft must be patient, tactically cunning and good e preservers. If surprised low and slow, they're essentially dead meat - the 190 has an advantage here though due to its superior roll rate, acceleration and climb at low altitudes. In a P47 vs 190A8 low level co alt high speed fight, the 190A8 has the advantage.
As mentioned, at higher altitudes, the P-47 outperformes the 190 and if the 190 elects to stay in a high altitude dogfight with a P-47, the odds are against him.
Some of this is IMHO. If you care to check my data, feel free to do so
.
Now, allied dweebs, go play with kerosene.
------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 12-05-2000).]
