Comparison: FW190A8 vs P47-D30

[Lephturn]

I think it would come down to convergence and length of the burst you can put on target StSanta.  If the target was fast at a high deflection angle, you've a better chance of killing him with the cannons I think.  You might hit him easier with the Jug, but chances of a kill or a cripple are low with that kind of shot.

A snapshot with the target in the bullet stream for a bit longer and the Jug will do leathal damage.  So would the FW, but it would be an easier shot in the Jug with the .50's great trajectory.

BTW guys, I think this all boils down to what roll you put the plane in.  At below 15k, arena altitudes, the FW holds all the cards.  The FW can disengage with a bit of skill and the Jug can't.  All the FW driver has to do is scissor to slow the Jug down, then flick away and accellerate for an exit.  I've had good FW drivers do it to me when flying the Jug and the Hog.  The FW driver can dictate terms, the Jug can only hope the FW is stupid enought to try a stallfight.

In the arena, the FW is slightly superior IMHO.  In a scenario, or other high altitude settings, the Jug will win the day.  I think your tests bear that out pretty well.

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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[SKurj]

190 was one of the best when it was introduced because...

In RL often the fight would last a few seconds or a minute or so with the 190's NEVER getting slow.  They would dive in on the target and extend, possibly to never return.  Its high speed maneuverability permitted it to make accurate attacks on the allied spits and the like, which did not handle well at high speeds.
Of course once the allies got planes which handled better at high speeds te tables turned.

AKSKurj

[SFRT - Frenchy]

thx Santa for numbers, great job  

All I know is that FW-190-A5 on deck out-turn me bad when sustained, out accel me bad and well... screews me deep.  <caught caught>  

[Suave1]

Good post Santa, I'm pleased that you included the "Looks" catagory . A lot of people are insensitive to the importance of this catagory and often overlook it .


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The slinky of destiny is returning to the top of the stairs .

[This message has been edited by Suave1 (edited 12-09-2000).]

[Luke Skywalker]

Frenchy...I am still stunned by the amazing fights we had yesterday.  

I can't stop hitting the "replay" in the film viewer!!! That fight was a beauty, and the first one was even better!.

BTW please can you send me the films? Email is in the profile. I'll send you the one I have

Thanks  

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Hey, dont shoot me! I'm on the light side!!
   


 

[This message has been edited by Luke Skywalker (edited 12-09-2000).]

[Tony Williams]

The Fw 190's armament wasn't as bad as some indicate.  The 20mm MG 151 generally fired M-Geschoss high-capacity shells at around 800 m/s compared to 880 m/s for the .50", although they weren't such a good shape so they slowed down more quickly.  

When it comes to long range effectiveness, you have to remember that the .50 relied on kinetic energy to do the damage, so its effectiveness dropped off with distance.  The cannon relied on chemical energy in the HE, which stayed the same regardless of distance (the MG 131 also fired cannon-type projectiles).  So although the .50's better trajectory might give it a better chance of scoring long-range hits, the cannon shells would be more destructive if they did hit.

Another point in favour of the 190 was that two of the cannon (in the wing roots) and the 13mm MG 131 in the cowling were very close to the aircraft's centerline, so avoided the problem of the US plane's wing guns, of needing to be harmonised (i.e. aimed inwards to hit the target at a specific range).  I understand that in practice P-47's usually had pairs of guns harmonised at different distances, but this would mean that you wouldn't get a really concentrated fire from all 8 guns at any distance.

Tony Williams
New book: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/index.htm

[juzz]

Ahh, but they are comparing the guns performance in Aces High - which most acknowledge as being somewhat different from reality.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Tony Williams:
The Fw 190's armament wasn't as bad as some indicate.

In WWII? no. In AH? Yes.

Mausers plain and simply such in Aces High. And the 13mm in WWII may have used cannon-like rounds.

In AH for sure, not. THe friggin thing has less hitting power than my little cousin's pea shooter.

[Jigster]

I once got an uber BB in the G10 one night...
popped the wing off a Tiff with a single 13mm hit  

- Jig

PS before you ask, I had already used me cannon on WD, and the other Tiff had just came down from A20 so he didn't have any previous damage because he hadn't been replaning.

[bloom25]

Last night I ended up in a co e fight with a 190a5.  I was flying a heavy p47d25.  I dropped my bomb before fighting, but I accidently left a rocket on.

We were the only two planes in the whole sector.  (Not a chog or n1k for miles and miles and miles.   )  The fight started with the 190 climbing slightly and me diving.  We both fired on the merge, but I don't think either of us landed hits.  What developed was a good fight with me trying to keep E by zooming as often as possible.  Eventually I start to stall out (and realize I left a rocket, so I shot that off) and I begin a scissors type of fight.  The 190 managed to take out my oil, but I knew the jug would last quite a while.  The 190s great rate of roll enabled it to land quite a few MG hits, but fortunately for me they didn't damage me too badly.  Eventually I was able to get the 190 to overshoot.  Dropping 3 notches of flaps I managed to catch the 190 nearly HO, with me slightly above.  I landed quite a few hits on this pass, and did the same on the next go around.  The 190 lost a wingtip and was unable to recover and crashed.  I tried to salute the pilot (who I hadn't meet before) but he never said anything?  I have the film of the fight, I'll post it here later:



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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[juzz]

post! post! post! post! Watching films in F5 view with trails is awesome.