Author Topic: Modern High Seas Piracy  (Read 2265 times)

Offline MORAY37

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2010, 01:21:00 PM »
the only problem with having some form of security that isn't on the ship being attacked, is that more often than not, there is no way to respond quickly enough.

 as for not allowing the ships into port? fine. they don't get their product. again, pretty simple.

So. Dangerous line you tread.  At what point does MAERSK define a threat?  Is is a direct threat to the ship.... or to its' profits?  So you have a motorboat doing circles around your merchant ship in say, China.  A guy pulls out something that looks like an RPG from 2000 yards.  You fire, because you think you're under attack.  Turns out it's some guy that had a bunch of fishing poles. 

International incident.

Second case.  You're tooling around India.  A flagged Indian Naval Vessel pulls alongside and demands boarding within their territorial waters.  They can see your weaponry.  Johnny Hick, fresh from the Merchant Academy, thinks it's gonna be funny to turn that 20 mm mount a bit.  Indian naval Captain puts a round through the bridge.

International incident.

NAVAL SHIPS are flagged and armed, with the country flagging providing the training and the ACCOUNTABILITY for the use of those weapons.

It simply isn't debatable.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2010, 01:22:25 PM »


 as for not allowing the ships into port? fine. they don't get their product. again, pretty simple.

So I guess you're also OK with letting armed ships into US ports then?
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2010, 01:23:56 PM »
Is anyone familiar with maritime customs/procedures.

It seems to me the easiest way to foil these new Somali speedboat attacks against maritime ships is to arm those ships with a .50 caliber or a 20mm. 

Of course this is an obvious solution, so there must be some reason why this isn't done.

Well its a little harder then that Dredge. Just putting a gun on a ship aint enough if you dont have the right people to shoot the guns. Sailors are trained and motivated to kill if they have to. Commercial vessel deck hands will look at the gun and say, "no way, you aint paying me enough". Then there is the issue of insuring the armed vessel, the deck hands...ect. There are also maritime Laws and agreements that prevent commercial vessels from being armed.

Also from what I understand some of these pirates are carrying some pretty heavy ords. A .50 might not be enough when they have the same along with RPGs and/or shoulder fired missiles. Again unless you have trained sailors holding the guns then they will probably do more harm then good. A lot of people get flat rattled when they get shot at.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2010, 01:26:31 PM »
You can't arm merchant ships, they would immediately pull their insurance.  As soon as you put arms on a ship it becomes in effect a Naval vessel for the country under which it sails. Many merchant ships put into ports that would never allow a naval vessel of that country to enter same port.

The only weapons they are allowed are a limited supply of small arms under lock and seal.

Only a hand full of ships are flagged in the US. They are easy to spot... painted grey. It is far cheaper to flag your vessel in a foreign country. Another reason to flag in a foreign country is that the coastguard will overloook many problems the ship has. American flagged vessels are gone though with a fine tooth comb.

I have been on many foreign flagged vessels that have innertubes wrapped around leaking pipes and bailing wire twisted to hold it in place. These vessels were all in port at the Port Of Houston.
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2010, 02:09:07 PM »
Only a hand full of ships are flagged in the US. They are easy to spot... painted grey. It is far cheaper to flag your vessel in a foreign country. Another reason to flag in a foreign country is that the coastguard will overloook many problems the ship has. American flagged vessels are gone though with a fine tooth comb.

I have been on many foreign flagged vessels that have innertubes wrapped around leaking pipes and bailing wire twisted to hold it in place. These vessels were all in port at the Port Of Houston.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_merchant_marine_capacity_by_country

If Merchants were allowed to be armed....

Japan and Germany would become the largest Navies in the world ......... :noid...exactly what they've been planning for all these years.    :lol :lol
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2010, 02:23:40 PM »
So I guess you're also OK with letting armed ships into US ports then?

actually yea i am.......'cause i know they'll be escorted in by the worlds best.  :aok
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2010, 02:29:07 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_merchant_marine_capacity_by_country

If Merchants were allowed to be armed....

Japan and Germany would become the largest Navies in the world ......... :noid...exactly what they've been planning for all these years.    :lol :lol

 :rofl
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2010, 02:59:50 PM »
actually yea i am.......'cause i know they'll be escorted in by the worlds best.  :aok

280 ships in the United States Navy, currently. Half deployed overseas.

You'd rather we'd have them all spend time "harbor mastering" merchants in and out of port (because they're now armed), than actually practicing to fight real navies?   :rolleyes:

All due to some incredibly poor Somalis half a world away....?  Overreact much?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 03:05:14 PM by MORAY37 »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2010, 03:09:14 PM »
280 ships in the United States Navy, currently. Half deployed overseas.

You'd rather we'd have them all spend time "harbor mastering" merchants in and out of port (because they're now armed), than actually practicing to fight real navies?   :rolleyes:

All due to some incredibly poor Somalis half a world away....?  Overreact much?

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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2010, 03:36:57 PM »
All due to some incredibly poor Somalis half a world away....?  Overreact much?
"poor Somalis"? Whatever economic conditions they have are their own doing...if they can afford AK47s and RPGs...they can afford to do something besides commit international crimes. I wouldn't call shooting back an over reaction...in any country.
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Offline john9001

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2010, 04:28:33 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 03:09:17 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline Simba

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2010, 05:30:48 PM »
The Gulf of Aden and western Indian Ocean have been piracy hotspots for centuries. Even the Royal Navy in its prime couldn't stop and search all the hooligans, so the policy was deterrence by dealing harshly with all pirates when they were caught; if the bad'uns didn't stop when ordered, they were promptly fired on and sunk, and any pirates captured were usually given short shrift. Any state that supported piracy was liable to be blockaded until its government took effective steps against the criminals that operated from its territory. The US Navy's first official overseas deployments were against the North African states that preyed on American merchant ships. The result was a marked decrease in piracy and a corresponding massive increase in profitable peaceful trade.

So now it's insurance companies' rules and rogue states whining 'unfair' that should dictate policy? Hmmm, that's the tail wagging the dog, when it should be the other way round. Appeasing nasties doesn't work. Merchant ships these days operate with crews too small to spare men for repelling boarders, so place a few under naval command, equip them with effective means to fight and send them into harm's way with a crew of well-trained personnel; a modern version of the old 'Q-ship' tactic. Sail ships together in convoy with naval escort through the worst trouble spots. Advise pirates and anyone who supports them that their attacks will be contested and their lives will end in misery if caught anywhere near a peaceful merchant ship.

Pirates aren't romantic rogues, they're a sore on the arse of humanity - and sores should be lanced before they infect the whole of the body.

 :mad:
    
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 06:19:34 PM by Simba »
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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2010, 05:38:13 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 03:09:38 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2010, 05:40:01 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 03:09:49 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Modern High Seas Piracy
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2010, 05:42:22 PM »
Ahhh....such a peaceful world we live in, eh? :)
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