High altitude fighting.

[Hoffman]

I was wondering if there is a training segment on, or if anyone good at it wants to take the time out to show me high altitude fighting techniques.
I just got back from going after one of the 28K Bomber runs on our strats and while I held my own against the Ponies and Jugs up there I was unable to actually get into a position to shoot any of them.

I was flying around in a Spit 14 since I never actually fly it and wanted to see what it would do, I'll post the film up after work tonight, but I'd really like to set up a time to practice high alt fighting since it also seems almost every fight I get into this past week has been above 15K.  Not snapping the aircraft and losing a mile of altitude would be a nice starter.   


Thanks in advance.

[uptown]

I'm no pro but like to learn also. Meet me in the DA about any night and we'll go a few. I'll show ya what i've learned and i can learn more about what a spit14 can do. Fights 18 to 25k are a whole different type of flying imo. I find you have to be really good at judging E. And what the other plane is capable of.
Maybe the trainers around here could have a clinic on this 
Anyhoo,  and hope to see ya in the TA or DA 

[Murdr]

In the TA, A3 has a select plane set availible for flight from a 30K take off.  There is also a 20k airspawn in the bomber zone.  That's a good place to get a feel for planes at altitude without the climb time. 

Something I find important for high alt fighting is keeping track of BOTH airspeeds much more closely than at low altitudes.  IAS gives you an idea of your maneuver options.  For instance, no matter how fast your true airspeed is, if IAS says you're doing 160mph, then an immelman is probably not an option.  On the flip side if you're considering a maneuver that will increase your speed, you want to look at TAS.  If you're already doing 420mph, it might not be a good idea to pull a split-s.  Depending on your airframe, you may end up losing several thousand feet until you can recover level flight.

[BaldEagl]

Murdr is right on.  Altitude does funny things.

For example, there was a challenge some time ago on the BBs as to how high you could go in a 163.  As I approached 90K my stall horn was sounding because my IAS was too low while at the same time my plane was shuddering because my TAS was too high.  Obviously this is an extreme example.

Another time in a 163 I chased a Pony to over 40K when I experienced mach tuck for the first time.  I spun and dropped to under 10K before I was able to recover.

These are just two examples of IAS vs TAS at extreme altitude.

In general when fighting high you need to relax your turns, climbs and manouvers.  Your low alt turn radius may double or more depending on alt and planes that may be easy prey for you at lower alts may not be at higher alts (F4U-4, P-47N, Spit XIV, Ta-152 for example).  Twin engines also seem generally better suited to high alt fights (P-38, 110, etc.).

There's no real turn and burn at higher alts and the guy who plays the E game better is generally going to win.

[JunkyII]

I fly Ta's up there so I know Ill almost out move anything at that alt.....with that being said I know most planes up there can out dive me.

I like to try to come up on the enmyies low six so I can at least have 1 shot before they run away or dive out





My sqauddie actually asked me how I got my 4 kills above 20k the other day and 2 of them came from getting shots when they tried to split S, the others were ponies dumb enough to fight a 152 at any alt

[Spikes]

Murdr is right on.  Altitude does funny things.

For example, there was a challenge some time ago on the BBs as to how high you could go in a 163.  As I approached 90K my stall horn was sounding because my IAS was too low while at the same time my plane was shuddering because my TAS was too high.  Obviously this is an extreme example.

Another time in a 163 I chased a Pony to over 40K when I experienced mach tuck for the first time.  I spun and dropped to under 10K before I was able to recover.

These are just two examples of IAS vs TAS at extreme altitude.

In general when fighting high you need to relax your turns, climbs and manouvers.  Your low alt turn radius may double or more depending on alt and planes that may be easy prey for you at lower alts may not be at higher alts (F4U-4, P-47N, Spit XIV, Ta-152 for example).  Twin engines also seem generally better suited to high alt fights (P-38, 110, etc.).

There's no real turn and burn at higher alts and the guy who plays the E game better is generally going to win.

During the DGS scenario thr 474th's 38s struggled at 32K...we were pretty much worthless until we got down a bit after pushing cons down...around 25K or so we could finally do some moree fighting and less struggling to keep the nose in level flight.

[CAP1]

i've had two great fights, both started out at around 20k alt. both were 38j vs 38j. one was rv6 flyer, the other was oldman22.
 two scary good pile-its. 

 to be honest, i didn't much mind my speeds up there, as it was work keeping them in my view. i didn't feel i really had time to "come back inside" the cockpit.
 
 i mostly went by the way she felt, and i noticed that the control inputs needed to be more precise, and gentle. i also noted, that no matter how we tried, the seperation was more than at low alt fights.

 it would be fun to go into ta or da and have some fights up there.