Dueling vs MA fighting

[thorsim]

What am I assuming? Do a split S in almost any plane against a higher con and your gunna get separation....whats so hard to understand about that?

because the other pilot who started E+ will still be E+ and will run you down if he chooses no to let you go ..

(unless of course you want to introduce other factors to once again to try to avoid understanding that you are in error)

because you can not extend from an E+ opponent unless he lets you one way or the other.

[humble]

I don't want to run from a +E opponent...I want to kill him...I want him to be +E the entire fight right up till I kill him. What important is that he thinks he's winning....right up until he's dying

[mtnman]

because the other pilot who started E+ will still be E+ and will run you down if he chooses no to let you go ..

This is exactly what you want him to do as the -E pilot.  It's what allows you to get him into guns range.  It's predictable behavior on his part, which is also kind of nice.

I'm counting on him "not letting me go" so I can kill him.

[humble]

thorsim,

For a lot of experienced player base being -E is potentially an advantage, even vs another quality stick some guys prefer to be counter punchers.

[dedalos]

i am very interested to hear how you propose to extend from an +E opponent ...

BTW you also are projecting your bias into his statement since he did not make any suggestion about what the motivations or intentions were of the extending pilot and no clue what he might do after the extension ...

as far as what i know about ACM, you also are assuming with the expected result ...

LoL, no one is assuming anything.  I saw your use of acm. Lol

[Bronk]

And I was just speaking in general that most run-tards couldn't find their dogfighting arse with both hands and a map when speed is no longer available to them.

Some days I'm a turn-tard, others I might be a  BnZ-tard ... but never a run-tard.

Fixed. 

[thorsim]

that is all well and good guys and i assure you that i am aware of all those possibilities ...

but none of those things are what we were discussing ...

someone felt free to criticize my play style and and question my understanding of the real world parameters that this game attempts to represent. 

in the process he made statements that clearly show a bias in his valuation in fighting styles and suggested a poor understanding of ACM. 

i pointed that out and here we are, all of you saying if this and if that, none of which addresses the issue at hand.

i think this previous poster said it best recently ...

Actually, there are speed/turn (and altitude?) envelopes (I forget what they're called) for every aircraft.  The optimum ACM is to be in a flight regime that exploits your plane's strengths vs. the enemy's weaknesses, which are not necessarily the slowest possible speed.

Extending in a dogfight is also a valid option.

Statements of the obvious, I know.

and i will take what he said for what it is and not project into it to suit any bias i may have about how one should fly.

 

[Bronk]

Thor here it is point blank.
Put  slapshot/dedalot/humble in an FM2 at 5k vs you in a 190 D9 at 10k.
They will either win or fight you to till you have to "extend" and try again. I'm more than willing to bet you will get too far away after the initial attack run. Enabling any of them to gain all of the E used to avoid your attack run.

If you were to reverse roles I'm quite sure you'd be toast quite quickly. Don't take it as a criticism of play style. These guys are just on another lvl. To get to their lvl you will have to do the turn tard thing though. It's the only way you can find out what your AC can and can't do.

[humble]

I'd put it in this perspective. What if you were in the inferior plane and had inferior position? We view this as a game of choice. I can choose the fastest plane and only fly with the numbers in my favor. Well what if your a guy like Dick Suehr flying P-400's at Port Moresby. The Zero's rolled in over hills often above the max functional altitude of the P-39's and P-400's. The simple reality is superior pilots in "inferior" planes killed thousands of pilots during the war. I could care less what you think you know. Until you can successfully apply it your just posturing.

[thorsim]

yep and ya know what bronk that has everything to do with what we know about AH and nothing to do with what we know about ACM ...

Thor here it is point blank.
Put  slapshot/dedalot/humble in an FM2 at 5k vs you in a 190 D9 at 10k.
They will either win or fight you to till you have to "extend" and try again. I'm more than willing to bet you will get too far away after the initial attack run. Enabling any of them to gain all of the E used to avoid your attack run.

If you were to reverse roles I'm quite sure you'd be toast quite quickly. Don't take it as a criticism of play style. These guys are just on another lvl. To get to their lvl you will have to do the turn tard thing though. It's the only way you can find out what your AC can and can't do.

[Bronk]

yep and ya know what bronk that has everything to do with what we know about AH and nothing to do with what we know about ACM ...

LOL it has every thing to do with ACM. Either plane they win. Why? They know how to apply ACM better than you. This is not a slam on you, they are just simply better. Only practice will get you to their lvl. Putting your nose down and running isn't going to get you any better.
Believe what you want. IMO though an evening spent in the DA or even the TA with any that I have listed WILL sharpen you.
You have nothing to lose and much to gain.  Once you have tried it nothing says you can't go back to flying in a more "historical" fashion.

[Masherbrum]

LOL it has every thing to do with ACM. Either plane they win. Why? They know how to apply ACM better than you. This is not a slam on you, they are just simply better. Only practice will get you to their lvl. Putting your nose down and running isn't going to get you any better.
Believe what you want. IMO though an evening spent in the DA or even the TA with any that I have listed WILL sharpen you.
You have nothing to lose and much to gain.  Once you have tried it nothing says you can't go back to flying in a more "historical" fashion.

Don't even waste your time on Earth with him Bronk.   

[thorsim]

uh huh so you believe would they be able to do the same to me in WB, i.e. a game i have played more than 6 months?

wanna bet on it ???

LOL it has every thing to do with ACM. Either plane they win. Why? They know how to apply ACM better than you. This is not a slam on you, they are just simply better. Only practice will get you to their lvl. Putting your nose down and running isn't going to get you any better.
Believe what you want. IMO though an evening spent in the DA or even the TA with any that I have listed WILL sharpen you.
You have nothing to lose and much to gain.  Once you have tried it nothing says you can't go back to flying in a more "historical" fashion.

[Bronk]

Don't even waste your time on Earth with him Bronk.   

I have  piled on the guy in the past for being a luftwhiner.  This time I am really trying to be helpful. If the guy will just swallow his pride and try what I am suggesting a whole new realm of possibilities would open for him.

Hell... If he'd just book some time with widewing (He's got no dog in this hunt.)  it would do him some good.

[Bronk]

uh huh so you believe would they be able to do the same to me in WB, i.e. a game i have played more than 6 months?

wanna bet on it ???

Give em 6 months?? Yup. Cream always rises to the top.

Edit: Gnite thor. Seriously book some time with Widewing it did me a world of good.