Dueling vs MA fighting

[Soulyss]

SBD's were used on multiple occasions as carrier CAP early in the war due to losses suffered by the F4F's. The leading "SBD Ace" was John Leppla who was credited with 4 kills during the defense of the Lexington (along with 3 credited to his gunner for a total of 7). The Wasps two SBD squadrons logged 7 confirmed air to air kills before it's F4F fighters scored a single pelt with Lt. RL Howard scoring the Wasps 1st aerial victory over Tulagi (A6M2) on February 8th 1942. All told the 2 "bombing squadrons" of the lady lex combined for 21.5 air to air kills during the battle of the Coral Sea.
http://books.google.com/books?id=28oev-ECY8gC&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71&dq=WW2+SBD+V&source=bl&ots=k1q1WtsKDt&sig=60-XWI_ZfuWn_IssGCvvcW6SAP0&hl=en&ei=Y5hQS-myCcyUtgf6qZ26CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false  
 
*** at Edit ***

I adjusted the kill number for coral sea to remove the VB-16 scores which occurred later in 1944. However it should be noted that VB-16 flying of the "lady lex II" was credited with 10.5 kills

Damn, beat me too it. 

[Yeager]

mind you i too was very surprised by the "A-20" in here but that does not happen anymore ...

I used to have fits dealing with cobia in the A20.  A tour dedicated to learning the A20 really helped   Based on its performance in the game I am still surprised that not a single A20 pilot made ace (Daylight versus fighter) during the war in that thing.

[humble]

The A-20 is a very capable bird, however a high SBD is far far more deadly then a high A-20. Recognizing that it's a limited window and that the SBD lacks the control surface authority that some fighters have at high speed the simple truth is that a good SBD driver will in fact get his moment in the sun and that with significant +E the SBD is for that short window double superior to anything in the game with any forward firing punch.

[SlapShot]

underestimated their opponent and his aircraft. 

That is the recipe for death no matter if it's fighter on fighter or fighter on dive bomber.

Once a pilot, in an inferior aircraft, has pulled his opponent into the sweet spot for his aircraft, and taken the opponent out of their sweet spot ... a great deal of underestimation has already taken place and in most cases ... it's too late.

Most, in AH, underestimate the FM2 (along with other "inferior" aircraft) ... and when that happens ... they die a quick death

[Masherbrum]

Most, in AH, underestimate the FM2 (along with other "inferior" aircraft) ... and when that happens ... they die a quick death

Damn straight.   

[Bronk]

Anyone have the screenshot of Furball's TBM shooting down Reynolds' Spit (IIRC)?

Was a 109.


 

[WMLute]

Thorism, you strike me as the type of player who believes the plane is the reason for success or failure.

A player such as this thinks "I am in X type of plane so I can win in a fight vs. a Y type of plane in a Z type of situation."

If they are in X type of a ride and come across a plane other than a Y they will not fight 'em. (unless forced to fight and when they die blame it on being in an X fighting not fighting a Y)

They limit themselves to Z types of situations and in all other situations they refuse to fight.  (unless forced to fight and when they die blame it on not being in a Z situation.)

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure I am not.  It is very common attitude and players such as this can be found every single day and in almost every sortie you take in AH.



Now then, we could put together a list of the top 100 pilots in AcesHigh and I am pretty sure you would be hard pressed to find a single one of them that flies like this or has that attitude.

To them it is the PILOT that wins the fight and as such it doesn't really matter (or at least not near as much) what they are flying, what the opponent is flying, or what the situation is.

Let us say i'm low, slow, and in an "inferior" plane being attacked by an opponent who has alt/e and flying a "superior" plane.  I fully expect to win that fight.  Heck, I am usually surprised if I don't.  Vs. the majority of the players in the game I WILL win that fight.

There is SO much more to winning a fight than your planes performance or if you have alt/e.

Now don't get me wrong...  I won't stall fight zekes otd in an a8 unless I HAVE to and yes I am surprised if I loose.  I am fully aware of all the planes strengths and weaknesses and how to use that to my advantage and to my opponents detriment.  I absolute use that knowledge in a fight.  But I use my knowledge of ACM a whole heck of a lot more.  I win by out thinking and out flying my opponent.

Some players "get" that.

Most do not.

There is a reason that the average player has to die almost three times to get one kill.

[ink]

Thorism, you strike me as the type of player who believes the plane is the reason for success or failure.

A player such as this thinks "I am in X type of plane so I can win in a fight vs. a Y type of plane in a Z type of situation."

If they are in X type of a ride and come across a plane other than a Y they will not fight 'em. (unless forced to fight and when they die blame it on being in an X fighting not fighting a Y)

They limit themselves to Z types of situations and in all other situations they refuse to fight.  (unless forced to fight and when they die blame it on not being in a Z situation.)

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure I am not.  It is very common attitude and players such as this can be found every single day and in almost every sortie you take in AH.



Now then, we could put together a list of the top 100 pilots in AcesHigh and I am pretty sure you would be hard pressed to find a single one of them that flies like this or has that attitude.

To them it is the PILOT that wins the fight and as such it doesn't really matter (or at least not near as much) what they are flying, what the opponent is flying, or what the situation is.

Let us say i'm low, slow, and in an "inferior" plane being attacked by an opponent who has alt/e and flying a "superior" plane.  I fully expect to win that fight.  Heck, I am usually surprised if I don't.  Vs. the majority of the players in the game I WILL win that fight.

There is SO much more to winning a fight than your planes performance or if you have alt/e.

Now don't get me wrong...  I won't stall fight zekes otd in an a8 unless I HAVE to and yes I am surprised if I loose.  I am fully aware of all the planes strengths and weaknesses and how to use that to my advantage and to my opponents detriment.  I absolute use that knowledge in a fight.  But I use my knowledge of ACM a whole heck of a lot more.  I win by out thinking and out flying my opponent.

Some players "get" that.

Most do not.

There is a reason that the average player has to die almost three times to get one kill.

so very true!!

[Nemisis]

It all depends on the pilot.  Yes, the La 7 would have the advantage due the altitude and energy but that doesn't translate to a one sided fight.

That is true ack ack. Let me clarify... Assuming the pilot skill levels are at par, and the La-7 has an alt advantage of 2k. Since he already has a speed advantage of almost 100mph at sea level, the P-40B is in a one sided fight.

  
Sometimes the best defensive tactic you can do is go on the offensive and sieze the advantage from the attacker.

[thorsim]

you guys make a lot of assumptions ...

high numbers combined with the pervasive furballer mentality means that your average player will have a 1/3 k/d ...

lute, let me ask you this, if you take two well matched members of the AH top 100(you pick) would you put your money on the guy in the fighter or the one in the dive bomber? 

would you feel pretty confident about that bet? 

if you lost that bet would you be of the mind that the guy in the fighter messed up?

[TW9]

you guys make a lot of assumptions ...

high numbers combined with the pervasive furballer mentality means that your average player will have a 1/3 k/d ...

 

back in day i managed a anywhere from a 3 to 14 k/d flying on deck or close to it in chogs, spitv's, ponies, and jugs oO

[humble]

I get killed by the "top 100" all the time. As it happens more often then not I'm in an "inferior" plane. I never feel that I lost the fight because of my chosen ride but because I got out flown.

[Lusche]

Both pilot skill as well as plane performance are part of the equation that determines the result of a dogfight (amongst several others). "It's all the pilot" is as overly generalizing and incorrect as "it's all the plane".

The plane is a tool we use. A good craftsman can still do astonishing things with a "bad" tool, but surely he could do more with a "better" one. An absolute beginner in any trade will most probably create nothing much of value, no matter which tool he is using. And there are tools with which a experienced craftsman can really create a masterpiece, but which may be too difficult to use for a beginner to utilize to their true potential.
With planes ist just the same.

[BaldEagl]

I have a tool.

[TW9]