Author Topic: Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes  (Read 555 times)

Offline Jochen

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« on: April 26, 2000, 05:53:00 AM »
From baugher's site:

Fw 190A-5/U3 - fighter-bomber with the ETC 501 bomb rack and without MG FF cannons. After a change of designation this was serially produced as Fw 190F-2. There was also a desert variant with dust filters designated as A-5/U3/tp (F-2tp).

Positive opinions coming from Luftwaffe units and increasing demand for fighter-bomber planes caused the Focke-Wulf factory to start production of the attack version of the plane, designated Fw190 F, as a completely new series rather than as a fighter modification, as it was previously. The first production series Fw 190F-1 was intended to be based on the A5/U3 modification. The design office decided to include previously produced Fw 190A-4/U3 planes as the F version with the designation F-1. Planes originally built as Fw 190A-5/U3 modifications were designated as F-2. Generally, through May 1943 271 planes were built as both Fw 190F-2 standard and F-2 tp (desert) versions.


And

Fw 190A-5/U8 - long range fighter-bomber with two underwing mounted external fuel tanks (capacity 2x300 liters) and an under-fuselage mounted ETC 501 bomb rack; armament consisted of only two MG 151/20 E cannons. It was developed into Fw 190G-2 plane and later serially produced.

The new Fw 190G-2 model was developed from the A-5 series fuselage and its fighter-bomber U8 modification kit (A-5/U8). It had the same modifications as used in the A-4/U8 plane. Additional fuel (468 kg) was placed in underwing fuel tanks but (except for a few early specimens) carried under the wings on simpler V.Mtt-Schlos locks, with two side struts - stabilizers. Duralumin profiled firings were not used in this plane, because despite its good aerodynamics during the flight to the target, when tanks were mounted, after tank ejection the fairing's influence was highly disruptive - aerodynamical drag was increased, fuel consumption increased and maximum speed was reduced by 40 km/hr. Locks without fairings were beneficial in both flight phases and after tank ejection small locks reduced the speed by only 15 km/hr. As in the Fw 190G-1, some planes got an additional oil tank.


What this means in practice? Well, I will tell you if you sit nice and quiet...

We (AH Luftaffe (conspiracy) that is) can have long range fighter bomber and ground attack plane in same plane!

Instead of modeling F and G series separately (which would, of course, be nice), same capability can be brought to game in form of A-5.

A-5 had several Umrustbausatz kits that were later taken to wider use in form of F and G series. These kits can be modeled to be included on A-5 ordnance options and in that form plane equipped with these kits would be in practice F-2 and G-2.

This idea and it's usefullnes seems so obviously that HTC must have noticed it. I think this might be one reason why mid production A-5 was selected instead of true early production A-3 or A-4. OF course the lenghtened nose is issue too.

Pretty please HTC, could you model those two U kits for A-5? They might be only armament options and different bombloads and drop tank configurations to you guys but they mean much more to me and other serious Wulf pilots.

 

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jochen

Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (Warbirds)

JG 2 'Richthofen' (Aces High)

I want to believe! Fw 190F-8 / G-8 / A-5 to Aces High!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline juzz

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2000, 06:38:00 AM »
All well and good - except how do you propose to keep the right guns with the right stores? What's to stop me loading up with 4x20mm, 2x7.92mm, a 500kg bomb and 2x300l droptanks?

I'd still rather a seperate plane, a late model F-8(which covers the G-8 options too). The F-8 also has a wider range of ordinance types available for it too.

Offline leonid

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2000, 06:53:00 AM »
No, it's true.  It was petty.  My apologies for a petty post.

 

[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 04-26-2000).]
ingame: Raz

funked

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2000, 08:16:00 AM »
"What's to stop me loading up with 4x20mm, 2x7.92mm, a 500kg bomb and 2x300l droptanks?"

The same thing that stops a Typhoon pilot from loading 8 rockets and 2 bombs. - good loadout coding.

The removal of outer wing armament was part of the R and U packages and would naturally be programmed when using those loadouts in the game.

Making a new type just to carry the bomb racks doesn't make any sense.  It just adds more work for HTC doing new skins.

Offline juzz

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2000, 08:54:00 AM »
But funked - guns are usually .ord 1 options, ordinance is .ord 0 and 2.

On the Typhoon rockets and bombs are both .ord 0 options.

What you suggest could possibly be done, but it hasn't been done on any other plane yet, and if it was it could get confusing.

EG:

.ord 1 0 = 2xMG17 cowl guns, 2xMG151/20 inner cannon
.ord 1 1 = 2xMG151/20 inner cannon

.ord 0 0 = Nothing
.ord 0 1 = 300 litre centreline tank
.ord 0 2 = 4x50kg centreline bombs
.ord 0 3 = 250kg centreline bomb
.ord 0 4 = 500kg centreline bomb

.ord 2 0 = Nothing
.ord 2 1 = 2xMGFF outer cannon
.ord 2 2 = 2xMGFF outer cannon + 2x21cm mortars
.ord 2 3 = 2x300 litre wing tanks

I can't get it to work.

I can have a Fw 190G loadout of 500kg, 2x300l DT but with 2xMG17 still fitted.

I can get 4x50kg centreline bombs, MGFF and 21cm rockets. Sounds like an unlikely combo to me.

Offline Jochen

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2000, 09:40:00 AM »
Gun configurations are issue, that is true but how important it is? I mean two extra MG FF's won't make very big difference during jabo sortie. And I believe many planes were modified on field so those gun configurations are not the whole truth.

Best way would be to have own plane entry for each variant but let's face it, we don't live in perfect world.

Second best solution is to tie ordnance options to gun configurations. So selecting G model wing droptanks automatically select 2 X 7.92 mm + 2 X 20 mm configuration.

Third best solution is to allow player to choose guns and bombs and droptanks as he wishes. I bet Fw 190A-5 with full gun set and 2 X 250 kg + 1 X 500 kg bomb is hard enought to take off and fly so there is reason to leave out 'extra' guns.

I would like to hear HTC's comments about our ponderings if they aren't too busy which they most propably are.

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jochen

Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (Warbirds)

JG 2 'Richthofen' (Aces High)

I want to believe! Fw 190F-8 / G-8 / A-5 to Aces High!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline juzz

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2000, 09:48:00 AM »
 
Quote
Best way would be to have own plane entry for each variant but let's face it, we don't live in perfect world.

Why is it considered such a hassle to have many different (and correct) versions?

I would much prefer to wait longer and have the F/G done right than done with a quick and dirty "hack" to an A model.

funked

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2000, 10:01:00 AM »
They just have to make certain items disabled and "greyed out" when you load other items.

If you look at which units used which variants, it's pretty obvious which combinations did not occur in the field.

In the case of the A-5 and its ground attack variants (including F-1 and G-2), the excluded items are as follows:

WGr 21 were used only by anti-bomber units.  Loading ANY bombs should exclude the WGr 21.

Wing racks for bombs and fuel tanks were used only by air-to-ground units on planes with cowl and outer wing guns removed.  Loading wing fuel or bombs should exclude cowl guns, outer wing guns, or the WGr 21.

This would add some complexity to the programming, but it seems like it would be easier to implement than seperate F and G series models.  I'm sure HTC will do whatever make more sense.

Offline Jochen

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2000, 10:43:00 AM »
 
Quote
Why is it considered such a hassle to have many different (and correct) versions?

While the 3D models are very similar, each variant needs it's own 2D texture ie. skin. This must be drawn by hand.

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jochen

Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (Warbirds)

JG 2 'Richthofen' (Aces High)

I want to believe! Fw 190F-8 / G-8 / A-5 to Aces High!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline Fishu

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2000, 02:52:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by juzz:

.ord 2 2 = 2xMGFF outer cannon + 2x21cm mortars

I always thought that 21cm WGr21's were air to air rockets....

Offline Pongo

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2000, 02:57:00 PM »
The translation "mortar" appears in several references..
The are based on nebelwerfer "rocket mortar" projectiles....

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Offline Jochen

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2000, 12:54:00 AM »
From news section:

 
Quote
In other news, work is underway on the next version. Natedog has already finished a Fw 190A-5 and Superfly a M-3 troop carrying halftrack. Nate's currently working on an A6M5b and SF is working on a Yak-9U. Other features in the next version will be discussed as we get closer.

Hopefully they did read this thread!  

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jochen

Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (Warbirds)

JG 2 'Richthofen' (Aces High)

I want to believe! Fw 190F-8 / G-8 / A-5 to Aces High!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes


[This message has been edited by Jochen (edited 04-27-2000).]
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

Offline Vermillion

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2000, 07:20:00 AM »
Pongo is right, the Wgr21cm rockets were almost a direct adaptation of the infantry weapon, strapped to the wings of an aircraft.

Now, I dont' know if they were ever used in an air to ground role, but I know the infantry used them frequently and effectively.

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Offline juzz

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2000, 09:27:00 AM »
What it all comes down to in the end is, who do we bribe?

Hitech and Pyro - or Natedog and Superfly?  

Offline Minotaur

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Fw 190A-5, mother of all ground attack planes
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2000, 11:09:00 AM »
Bribe? Lady Hawk of course.  

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