More N1K2 testing

[Jigster]

Okay I *really* found something weird this time.

Did the test as following: 50% fuel, clean.
took off, set wind for .0 180 127 127 into the north in order to get altitude, then set .wind 0 0 0 0 before leveling, slight climb (as stated below) and a 50-60 degree dive.

The N1K2 does not lose manifold pressure as altittude increases. Even at 39,000ft, with WEP on the N1K2 maintains right at 45MP. While it is apparently subject to high altitude physics it does appear to maintain full power. I got it to maintain a 1k ROC at about 39,000ft

As an aside, the reason I didn't continue to 40,000ft is the FM physics get totally weird above that. On most planes, manifold pressure decreases to this point and suddenly jumps back to sea level manifold pressure. Somewhere in the 50's air density comes back to near sea level too.

Anyway, I don't know if that is just a gauge glitch but it does appear that it still has full power.

Also, I did some dive testing from slightly below 39,000ft. In the 50-60 degree dive, I had the true airspeed almost pegged, and got just over 600MPH indicated and was able to recover (taking about 7,000 feet once I started pulling out at 20,000 and recovered before 12,000) with no damage. In a previous test with a 90 degree dive the ailerons snapped off at just over 600 MPH indicated, and had the true airspeed well pegged at 15,000. The plane finally shed it's wings at 670 MPH Indicated at @ 10,000ft.

Moral of the story: Don't try and out dive a N1K2.

Additionally I tested the P-38 and F4U-1C, the 38 was capable of a 575MPH pull out (actually it pulled it's self out, even with full down trim, and losing the elevator in the process)

The F4U-1C seemed normal, like the 38 they both lost manifold pressure. At 39,000ft the F4U-1C had 10MP and the 38 had 25MP. The 1C has some really weird diving quirks. If you don't roll, it can dive up to 600 MPH indicated, but then it sheds the ailerons and then shortly after, both horizontal stabilizers at once putting (which happened @ 15,000ft) it in coin-toss ass-over-tea-kettle flip.

Attaching the film of the N1K2 but dunno if its gonna show up, Homestead has been tempremental lately.
 http://bigdweeb.homestead.com/files/N1K2dive.zip

- Jig

PS the N1K2 over revved to prolly 6,000 RPM, the only the three that had a significant increase in RPM.

[Toad]

Jig,

Thanks for the effort you put into this. I do appreciate it!

You are one of the few guys that will take the time to investigate and try to find some repeatable data that Pyro can actually work with.

Such a nice change from the "wah, wha! WHA!" guys!

OK, now over to you Pyro!    

[SKurj]

Can't verify fuel loads etc, but.....

Encountered an enmy N1K at 20k (i was 25k), made a bnz pass at him he extended ( i let him)  Then he proceeded to climb... He outclimbed my G6 75% fuel at this point, no gondies, to 30+k

AKSKurj

gonna do testin of my own...

[Jigster]

did the link work btw?

The only thing that really concerns me is the manifold pressure and power output. While I don't think the real N1K2 was capable of near supersonic dives (not taking into consideration the manufacturing situation) even under ideal conditions, however, I have nothing to found it on and thought I'd pass it along to see if anyone else can shed some light on it  



[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 12-11-2000).]

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

This would confirm my ability to outclimb P51s at 28k in a Niki with about 75% fuel, wouldnt it? Both P51 were experienced AH pilots, Mino and Animal. Jigster thanks for running these tests. HTC plz look into Niki vertical performance, this test once again illustrates that something is supect about niki vertical performance. Every issue broughtup regarding the niki FM seems to be directly linked to some aspect of vertical performance. Please look into this.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Karnak]

Sounds fishy.

N1K2 should be gasping like a landed fish above 20,000 or 30,000ft.  That crappy Japanese fuel just wasn't up to the task of high altitude flight.

Nice work Jigster.

Sisu
-Karnak

[funked]

Jig here are the charts for the plane: http://www.hitechcreations.com/n1k2.html

These are for full internal fuel and ammo and are backed up by historical data.

If you can show that it is outperforming these charts you've got something.

PS I already did it and Pyro agreed to fix it.   http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000897.html

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 12-11-2000).]

[Jigster]

I've been using wind command to get to altitude so I used 50% to compensate. I'll do a full length test when I get the time.

I did a check at 30,000 feet with full internal (about 1/8th burned from the aux only) and it was still climbing at 1.3k ROC, 3k above the stats on the chart, at the default climb speed. It was also doing @ 334 MPH.

I was still getting 300 fpm climb at 37,000ft in the test I just did as well.


It seems the actual N1K2 is exagerated some over its charts but there's not a huge margin of difference (then again at that alt you might consider otherwise)

[CavemanJ]

Here's another MA anecdote for ya, and yet another reason I wish we had the option to have the recorder running all the time with the option to save when the sortie ends.

F4U-1C vs N1K2
I was about 13k, the N1K looked to be about 15-16 at the start.  At any rate he was not much higher than me.  The N1K made a sweeping pass on another rook, putting him off my beam and on a slightly convergent course, extending to go up and come around again (I thought).  I've got a fair amount of smash up so I ease the nose over, thinking to follow him up and pop him as he comes over the top.

The N1K starts up and I ease the nose up for a little lead, check the guage and speed is touching 350 true, and the bandit is about 1.6 infront.  He's doing an easy immelman, and I'm inside him closing fast.  He starts to roll upright, 800yds... 700yds... quick glance at speed, 200, 600yds.. hit the triggers for a snap before dropping the nose.

The N1K rolls upright and pulls up hard, looking like he's going for another immelman.  I ain't goin up with him anymore, so I nudge the ailerons and rudder, kick wep in, point the nose straight down, and dive away, looking back to see how much trouble I've put myself in.

Dinnae appear to be too much, range shows 900 and opening fairly quickly.  Pop the zoom for a closer look at exactly what his kite is doing.  He's wobbling at the top of his second immelman, and looking like he's about to spin it.  Range is 1.4 now.

Glance forward to check the altimeter, passing through 8000ft and unwinding rapidly with the wind sound really starting to pick up.  Look back to check 6 and there's the N1K (only bandit in the area) with his nose on me, and CATCHING me.  The way the range is winding down I wonder if I've snagged something that has suddenly increased drag by 500%.  900-800-700-600-500-PINGBOOM!  And he dinnae start shooting til about 550, that's when the tracers appeared.

I was left with only one question.....
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

Now, I realize the N1K has verra good acceleration.  But is it so good that it can overcome the headstart I had?  With my sound settings the wind sound isn't really perceptible over the engine with wep on until 350true, and dinnae really start winding up until 400-410true.  And I hadna started my pullout yet, so there was no corner for him to cut.

Now can one of you aeronautical genius types (w/o the flaming pompoms please) explain to me why this should or should not happen as I've described?


[This message has been edited by CavemanJ (edited 12-12-2000).]

[Jigster]

btw I've recovered up to 650 MPH indicated with no damage on the N1K2. I think if I time it right I can get it to 675, have the true air speed pegged, at about 12k maybe a little lower.

What's the speed of sound at 10k, 15k, and 20k, respectively?

Cave, try going over 615 indicated in the F4U's...the little easter egg thingy will make you barf   I thought I went so fast I crashed the game .exe till I went to external chase.

[SKurj]

whats the trick to using the wind command to gaining altitude?
LOL hate spending alotta time climbing for testing..

AKSKurj

[Karnak]

.wind 0 180 127 127

Take off facing North.  You take off like a Helicopter.  

When you get to the altitude desired, enter:

.wind 0 0 0 0

Sisu
-Karnak

[funked]

Jig:  I can't get better than 800-900 fpm at 30,000 feet.  If you were getting 1,300 fpm at that altitude you either zoomed or you need to check your wind settings.

Also, 334 mph is approximately the max level speed of the N1K2-J at that altitude.  If the plane "maintained full power" as you claim, you'd be doing a hell of a lot faster than 334!

Cave:  Net lag could cause what you saw.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 12-12-2000).]

[CavemanJ]

funked I've discounted netlag.  Everyone around was rock solid when this was happening, and it's not the first time I've had an N1K accelerate like that on me.  The other time I was in a hog, shallow dive, 450true or so.  The N1K was at my 11oc passing to 10 at about 500yds when he stood on his wing and pulled into me.  At about 8-900yds or so behind me he had his nose around and was CLOSING after making a hard turn, while I had only turned maybe 10degrees, and really gentle turn at that.  He closed to about 550yds and got half a wing before I started walking away from him.

[juzz]

Why didn't you do a spiral dive? N1K2-J can't roll too good at any speed...