Author Topic: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0  (Read 2529 times)

Offline Widewing

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #90 on: January 10, 2010, 02:06:35 PM »
*ahem*

Check Mythbusters:

They did an experiment where they fired a bullet into the wall of a plane (pressurized as if it were at 35,000 feet or so), and it did not suck everything out.

-Penguin

All pressurized aircraft leak... For a 737, the typical cumulative leak area can be almost 6 square inches (which will vary depending upon condition and age of the airframe), far larger than a bullet hole, or even a dozen bullet holes. A single hole would go unnoticed relative to cabin pressure.

It's not the holes in the cabin that are of concern, but holes in important hardware, fuel tanks, etc.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline bj229r

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #91 on: January 10, 2010, 02:09:10 PM »
Unfortunately, the M9 is not a very good pistol. I've managed to break several of them. It won't be long before they get yanked and replaced with a better weapon. We've been testing Sigs, which will soon equip all of SOCOM, and will probably replace the M9 eventually.


My regards,

Widewing
bigger caliber hopefully? Even my wife carries a Glock .40 (She's gonna give that to me, as she wants the sub-compact Smith .45 :aok)
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #92 on: January 10, 2010, 02:12:52 PM »
Wrong again:

Nobody can win a one vs. hundred, even with unlimited ammo and no clips; realize that you are being drawn down on from every direction at once.  That's why everybody gets one in their armrest, and the weapons are only released by the pilot when he sees a threat.

EDIT:
Right, but the guns are locked until there is a threat.

-Penguin

 Are you for real?? that's the most absurd thing i have ever heard, OK so under your theory armrests have pistols that only the Pilot can unlock when theres a threat, how do you propose you keep the guns out of the terrorists hands once the Pilot unlocks the "secret armrest gunsafes" how does the pilot know how many bad guys there are? He could unlock an armrest where a bad guy is sitting . to many paranoid people, heck you can die slipping in the shower.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #93 on: January 10, 2010, 02:18:17 PM »
I did read somewhere that they are going to put new emphasis on air marshals. Hopefully, the idiots who run that program won't make these 23 year old kids, with the military haircuts, wear coat-and-ties again, thus putting a large sign on them saying "HI! I'M AN AIR MARSHAL!" :noid
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Offline Yossarian

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #94 on: January 10, 2010, 03:04:01 PM »
I did read somewhere that they are going to put new emphasis on air marshals. Hopefully, the idiots who run that program won't make these 23 year old kids, with the military haircuts, wear coat-and-ties again, thus putting a large sign on them saying "HI! I'M AN AIR MARSHAL!" :noid

I'm fairly sure that won't happen ;)
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Offline Simba

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #95 on: January 10, 2010, 03:19:00 PM »
Too many years ago I worked alongside a quiet li'l man who married a Jewish lass in 1947 while he was serving as a Warrant Officer with the Royal Horse Artillery in what was then the British Mandate of Palestine. He remained a British citizen but whatever he'd got up to during the War of Independence following the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 had made him a 'Friend of Israel', which opened up some unusual opportunities for him.

One of those opportunities was serving as an unpaid Air Marshal for El Al: he'd contact the airline whenever he wanted to fly abroad, they'd issue him with his instructions as he arrived early at the airport and he then joined the passengers as they boarded, sat down in a seat at the rear of the cabin and kept his eyes open for any trouble. He never carried a gun, relying on keen observation and his unarmed-combat skills to deal with anyone who might threaten the safety of the aircraft. He told me the worst bother he ever had to deal with was the odd drunk (there were other Israeli Marshals aboard with weapons who were briefed to combat anything more serious) and he'd travelled for free ever since the early days of the airline.

It took me a long time to gain his confidence before he told me about his cheap-travel arrangements - and many details of his history he never revealed to me at all. I wouldn't have written this if he hadn't died a few years ago.

Here's to all those who put the safety of others before their own.

 :salute      
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 03:21:10 PM by Simba »
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Offline bagrat

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #96 on: January 10, 2010, 04:46:06 PM »
I'm not sure how to put this, but there is really no way to be sure what anybody's intentions are nor is there an easy systematical fix to the problem either. Systems are made to be broken an a terrorist for the most part will always be able to find a loop hole in it. All there is to do is for people to learn to think on there feet as they've been doing, accepting that it could happen to us and it will if we don't think fast at critical times.  

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Offline kilo2

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #97 on: January 10, 2010, 05:17:16 PM »
Wrong again:

Nobody can win a one vs. hundred, even with unlimited ammo and no clips; realize that you are being drawn down on from every direction at once.  That's why everybody gets one in their armrest, and the weapons are only released by the pilot when he sees a threat.

EDIT:
Right, but the guns are locked until there is a threat.

-Penguin

 


Worst idea ever. It was a hoot reading though. :rofl :rofl
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Offline Denholm

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #98 on: January 10, 2010, 07:40:19 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

These figures show the measure of perspective is out of balance.  So much drama for so few attention seekers.  That's what amuses me.  Maybe we should tackle road safety with the same vigour.  It would serve us far better.    
If that were the case, major companies would go bankrupt. Look at it this way...

Aviation has multi-billion dollar companies, executives, and lobbyists capable of "persuading" political figures that a lack of security measures will hurt their industry.

Ground transportation also has multi-billion dollar companies, executives, and lobbyists who "persuade" political figures that any more stringent requirements on drivers would hurt their industry due to a decrease in totaled cars.


I'm by no means saying it's accurate, simply food for thought. I totally agree that safer roads are a plus, I'm also quite aware that some people with a lot of influence will be mighty unhappy with the end results appearing in their paychecks.
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #99 on: January 10, 2010, 11:31:57 PM »
bigger caliber hopefully? Even my wife carries a Glock .40 (She's gonna give that to me, as she wants the sub-compact Smith .45 :aok)

Sig P229 in .40 S&W is what we have been testing. We and our partner are developing a shot counter that is installed in the grip. This testing requires thousands of rounds to be fired. We did similar testing on the Beretta 92/M9 and 96. Unlike the reliable Sig, the M9 and 96 routinely suffered both major and minor failures. Frames cracked, slide retaining pins failed, front sights fell off and in one case, the slide suffered a fracture.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #100 on: January 11, 2010, 01:02:31 AM »
Sig P229 in .40 S&W is what we have been testing. We and our partner are developing a shot counter that is installed in the grip. This testing requires thousands of rounds to be fired. We did similar testing on the Beretta 92/M9 and 96. Unlike the reliable Sig, the M9 and 96 routinely suffered both major and minor failures. Frames cracked, slide retaining pins failed, front sights fell off and in one case, the slide suffered a fracture.


My regards,

Widewing

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Offline Penguin

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #101 on: January 11, 2010, 05:27:43 PM »
I'm pretty old and have heard lots of things in my life, so this isn't the stupidest thing I have ever heard...but it comes close.

shamus 

Don't see what's wrong with the idea.  Just calling it stupid doesn't make it that way.

Explain your reasoning.  Anything that happens to the passengers when they react is better than the alternative: crashing it into a building.

-Penguin

Offline Stoney

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #102 on: January 11, 2010, 05:41:33 PM »
Don't see what's wrong with the idea.  Just calling it stupid doesn't make it that way.

Explain your reasoning.  Anything that happens to the passengers when they react is better than the alternative: crashing it into a building.

-Penguin

To be proficient enough with a weapon in such a confined and highly populated space requires a lot of training, and regular proficiency shooting that most common law-enforcement people don't even get.  Add to that the type of split-second decision making that's involved, and you have a recipe for disaster with common citizens armed on a plane.  Besides, if the hijackers knew they wouldn't be able to "fly" the plane once they took it over, they'd merely just try and blow it up from the get-go.  Thus, removing the need for pistolas on the plane anyway.

Let the FAM's take care of it--they're the pros.
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Offline Penguin

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Re: Terrorists 1 rest of the world 0
« Reply #103 on: January 11, 2010, 05:49:39 PM »
My answer is one word: 9/11.  If they did it once, they can (hopefully not) do it again.

Even if half of the people on board die, it beats the alternative: the plane exploding and killing those around it.

-Penguin