Author Topic: Radio, Radio...  (Read 988 times)

Offline Vinkman

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Radio, Radio...
« on: January 11, 2010, 04:50:54 PM »
Radio, Radio,  

I'm flying toward the enemy base in the company of another friendly. We encounter 3 bogies that are co-alt, a P-38 is about 2k out in front of a Spit and T-bolt heading strait at us.  I'm on the left in Yak 9T, about 2k in front of the other friendly who's in a P-51. I call "in" on the P-38.  After several turns the P-38 is in my gun sights, he's turning hard and bleeding e-fast. I pass on few snap shots because this yak has 32 useful round of ammo and I don’t want to waste them, I can wait a little longer for a cleaner shot and it should be coming right up because the 38 driver is cork screwing in the hope of making me miss, but not doing anything that's going to turn the tables. In a few seconds he won't have the E to roll fast enough to make me miss. Once I kill him I can turn back to help the Mustang who's on the short end of a 2 on 1. The 38 levels out and starts to make a slow climbing right hander. I turn with him, give it a little throttle and some left rudder to get the nose up and line him up. I'm about the squeeze the trigger when a stream of tracers races past my canopy. Damn a bandit is in firing range. He missed but he has lead on me. I'm in trouble but I can get the kill first. I squeeze the cannon button. The 38 is in pieces and begins to spin nose up when my rounds hit him and he explodes. What the…just then the friendly 51 blows past me. The tracers were his. System: You got an Assist on bandit.  For Pete's sake. More tracers fly past the canopy. I look back ad the Spit and the Jug are 400 yrds back, one turn later I'm missing a wing and spiral into the ground. It seemed so inefficient.
What did I learn from the ensuing frustration? That very few team mates think like real pilots. Why should they? It's a game not a real war. There are no generals, no orders, no game plan, no roles and responsibilities, no training, and no accountability.  The team dynamics are a result of each pilot acting on his own sense of what he feels like doing at any given moment, and at that moment the 51 driver wanted a kill. He didn’t want to defeat the red menace, or make sure I got home safely, which would be top priorities for a pilot in a real war. He wanted to kill as many red guys as he could, and get back and land them, the bandit I was chasing was the easiest one to get.
Sure, there could be a lot of reason for him to go for the same guy I was after…
He thought I'd miss
He thought the guy might turn the tables
He never saw me
Etc…

I got caught up in very similar situation about an hour later and I in frustration I squeaked over the range channel "G'd Darn it, why are you shooting over my shoulder?"  I was told I had just done the same thing by downing a pilot who was on a friendly's twelve o'clock. I replied with this excuse..

I thought he was on your six o'clock.

In my defense I think the bandit was on his six when I saw him and dove to 'help', but by the time I got there they were engaged in a rolling scissors and they friendly may have completed the reversal. He said he had the film. Perhaps he'll post and clear it up. But as I thought more about it I realized what the real problem was. Too much assuming, not enough communicating on the radio.  So I'm committing myself to a new radio etiquette where I will asked before entering, and announce what I'm doing so others know. A few already do. I hope it catches on. The MA needs a little more organization, even if it's one furball at a time.

Vinkman
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 07:03:57 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline Yeager

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 04:56:10 PM »
edit:  Good story telling  :cheers:
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 05:09:09 PM »
<snip>

Vinkman


I see that a lot.  I'll see a friendly and a bandit go 1v1 and then the bandit breaks off from the fight to dive and pick someone even though they still have the friendly they were originally fighting on their six.  For example, I was fighting a P-47M in a 1v1 fight the other day at around 10k and there were a couple of bandits and a friendly fighting below us.  The Jug loses position after a couple of turns and I get on his six and then he immediately dives for the fight below us to pick the friendly that was already engaged in a 2v1 fight.  Sadly, I wasn't able to get the kill shot on the P-47M as he dove (those suckers can dive really fast) and killed the friendly but popped him right after as he pulled up in the vertical.  I just don't understand that line of thinking and attributed it to "If I'm gonna die, at least I'm gonna take one of these bastards with me" type mentality.  I'm sure the two bandits that were originally on the friendly's six didn't appreciate having their kill stolen either by the P-47M driver.

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Offline Jouster

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 07:07:46 PM »
I had a similar thing happen to me the other day. I take up an f6f, go afk for a bit and end up 30 k up in hostile territory. I decide to turn around and head back to an unfriendly base. after completing the turn I spot a dot lower than me and ahead and start a shallow dive. Turns out to be a red p-47m. We merge and begin what was turning out to be a  great fight at about 20k. both of us are low on energy when his calvary shows up in the guise of a tempest, which promptly blows up my engine. So as I'm heading downward, here comes the p47 diving on me putting a bunch of 50 cal rounds in my tail and taking it off, stealing the tempests kill. I punched out, shook my head and left for the night.

I was blown away that dude would do that. If I was the tempest pilot I would have been perturbed.
Watching you get on my six with my dead cat like reflexes.

Offline infowars

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 07:56:23 PM »
LMOA... Story of my llife..  At least in the Yak I think.  I also fly the T and will "play with my food" so to speak until,  I get a positive solution and only use 1 of my 32 cannon rounds.  So many times I get my 12 cleared right as I've tired the guy out.  

Mostly happens in furballs  which I expect, but its the occasional good fight I am having that chaps my hide when I get my KILL STOLEN ... :cry

 Oh yeah,  I also ask to enter a fight if it even remotely seems competitive.  
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 08:01:57 PM by infowars »
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Offline pervert

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 08:14:59 PM »
It happens a lot, no point trying to rationalize it or get annoyed about it that guy shoulder shooting you could have been fighting the guy your now on for a long time. I've worked guys down from high up before maybe a 5-10 minute fight right down to the deck and had someone latch onto him on the deck and then have me shoot them down and got the 'you stole my kill' on vox, its very much a perspective thing.

Offline JimmyC

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2010, 05:08:57 AM »
rgr that victor
5 by 5 on more coms
out
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Offline Ghostbuster

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2010, 05:36:20 AM »
I had a similar thing happen to me the other day. I take up an f6f, go afk for a bit and end up 30 k up in hostile territory. I decide to turn around and head back to an unfriendly base. after completing the turn I spot a dot lower than me and ahead and start a shallow dive. Turns out to be a red p-47m. We merge and begin what was turning out to be a  great fight at about 20k. both of us are low on energy when his calvary shows up in the guise of a tempest, which promptly blows up my engine. So as I'm heading downward, here comes the p47 diving on me putting a bunch of 50 cal rounds in my tail and taking it off, stealing the tempests kill. I punched out, shook my head and left for the night.

I was blown away that dude would do that. If I was the tempest pilot I would have been perturbed.

The only thing I would bring up here maybe in their defense.
It could have been a friend that did communicate towards him and said:
Finish him.
That I would understand, if it was not that, than it was a kill stealing,
although stealing a kill.
In real war I'd rather have the guy shot down by somebody anyhow rather than rack the kill myself.

Offline LCCajun

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 07:09:43 AM »
That is why I only fly with guys that I know or guys that I have seen around and seen how they like to fly. I usually ask if a friendly needs help or not. If not I will just hang high and cover them so their 1v1 doesn't get interrupted. Nothing pisses me off more then a friendly shooting over my shoulder. I usually try to fly in their stream so they kill their selfs  :devil.
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Offline SlapShot

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2010, 07:33:26 AM »
I had a similar thing happen to me the other day. I take up an f6f, go afk for a bit and end up 30 k up in hostile territory. I decide to turn around and head back to an unfriendly base. after completing the turn I spot a dot lower than me and ahead and start a shallow dive. Turns out to be a red p-47m. We merge and begin what was turning out to be a  great fight at about 20k. both of us are low on energy when his calvary shows up in the guise of a tempest, which promptly blows up my engine. So as I'm heading downward, here comes the p47 diving on me putting a bunch of 50 cal rounds in my tail and taking it off, stealing the tempests kill. I punched out, shook my head and left for the night.

I was blown away that dude would do that. If I was the tempest pilot I would have been perturbed.

Conversely, if I was the P-47 driver, I would have been pissed if I didn't get the kill after dancing around with you trying to get position and then some Tempest jockey comes screaming in and pops your engine.

I would have done exactly what the P-47 driver did ... deny the meddling Tempest the kill that I was working hard for.
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Offline Wagger

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2010, 07:59:53 AM »
Vinkman I know your pain.  In fact I have heard it many times.  But I do understand your frustration. I know that it does help when you fly with someone you know.  Working in a squad and flying with someone on a regular basis alleviates some of these problems.  One thing I have found is that sometimes when I start a high speed pass on a lower con and a friendly pulls in behind them is to let the friendly know I have his six and if I am closing fast and going to overtake him relay this info on vox. Usually I get a reply that they have them or take him if you can.  As you say communications is a large part of it.  Be looking for you in the friendly skies.  Check your six.

Offline Hawk55

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2010, 08:22:42 AM »
Conversely, if I was the P-47 driver, I would have been pissed if I didn't get the kill after dancing around with you trying to get position and then some Tempest jockey comes screaming in and pops your engine.

I would have done exactly what the P-47 driver did ... deny the meddling Tempest the kill that I was working hard for.

You took the words I was about to type out of my mouth Slap.  Totally agree!   :aok
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Offline GREric

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2010, 09:08:55 AM »
Us Bishop have the Bishop Joint Operations, so does the Rooks. We all do MoM Missions, so the MA does have a little organization. 
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Offline Slate

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2010, 09:21:39 AM »
  The difference is those that fly AH as a game, for points. Those that fly it as a combat Sim will help each other and enjoy the immersion. The 51 could have scored one or both of those focused on your six. Selfishness accounts for a lot of lame gameplay. (Yes Hitech some pretend your game is a Sim).
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Radio, Radio...
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2010, 11:31:57 AM »
Another example of what I wsa talking about happened last night.  I was in a B-25H defending out base from GV attack and there was Rookie flying around in a P-51 near the base.  He is engaged with a fellow Knight and when he sees me making my landing approach, breaks off with the Knight he's fighting and swoops down and tries to vulch me as I land.  Of course he dies because the guy he was fighting is now on his six and nails him as he tries to vulch.

I just don't understand why people make these type of bad tactical decisions.


ack-ack
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