Reduce the 0.5 cal hitpower

[Naudet]

After reading Green Hearts - First in Combat with the Dora 9, i really come to the conclusion that the dmg of the 0.5 must be reduced.

Nowhere in the book (which refers to the time sept 1944-end of WW2), is mentioned that the 0.5 was a very deadly gun.
But there are many reports of D9 getting shoot up and still returning home (btw most often with intact engine and radiator   ), cause the 0.5 cal only used massive bullets instead of explosive shells like a cannon.

i.e. a D9 returned home with 25 0.5 cals in it, in one prob blade there were 3 wholes, 2 bullest were stopped by pilots armour, and there were a couple of bullets that passed through wing etc.

in AH we have no bullet path modeled that recognizes if a bullet hits a vital part, instead we have accumulated dmg, which means the 0.5 cal in AH is much more powerful than it should, i guess the power should be reduced by about 10-20%, this may also account for all other guns with solid bullets like the MG131, the 0.303 cal, the 7,9mm MG17 and or the 7,7mm mg

[ra]

Naudet,

You may well be right, but:

Modeling bullet damage can't really be done in any scientific way because even if you know the ballistics of a round, there is no way to know how much damage that round can do to an airplane, there are just too many variables.  So any damage model is going to be guess work.  When you dig up anecdotes like a Dora taking 25 .50cal rounds and making it home, you invite others to dig up their own anecdotes.  Someone is bound to post that story about a Jug taking 200+ 7.7mm and 10 20mm and making it home.  The fact is a plane can be brought down by 1 7.7mm or it can survive multiple cannon hits, depending on many variables.  Mostly on how lucky the pilot is.  Games like AH try to get the ballistics right, but the damage model has to be guessed at.

I bet under the right circumstances an AH Dora could survive 25 hits from a .50cal and RTB.  That doesn't mean the AH damage model is good or bad, but it shows that one anecdote can't really be used as a significant source of data for a damage model.

ra

[SFRT - Frenchy]

From my own perception, to kill a plane, u need to spray a continuous fire for at least 2 secs to kill a plane with .50s.

If you use canons, 3-4 pings and it's done, making snapshots more effectives.

I'm not complaining, it's just my observation.

Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
 

[Torgo]

Boy, would there be the ultimate riot if this ever happened.

As it is whether an AC has cannons or not is really a primary consideration of aircraft selection.

As someone who flies a P-51 mostly, the difference in ease of quick kills with a CHog or LA7 is monumental.

Keep in mind, the problem with battle damage is that you get accurate reports of what was survived FROM PLANES THAT MADE IT BACK.

If a Dora is a crumpled hunk of metal half-buried in the North German plain and the pilot is in several pieces, you don't get a very accurate idea of what .50 cal does to them from that aircraft.

[Tac]

not to mention SEVERE lack of armour or any kind of inbetween damage modeling.

P-38 will have its tails, wings and engines shot out in a high angle snapshot of .303's quite commonly. Last time I checked, this plane was made of some kind of metal, not glass. The last planes that were introduced DO seem to eat more lead (better modeling? no clue)... when will earlier introduced planes be "revisited" with the magic touch of armour? FM?

It aint the guns I think, its the damage model. Its unbelievable to think a spray 'n hit lone .50 cal bullet can rip an entire wing out, or smack an elevator/aleiron clean off the wing of a plane at d700. That simply does not happen.

[Dune]

And Robert Johnson came back with 20+ 20mm holes in his Jug.  So turn those down too  

[juzz]

Since when did the "machineguns" fire exclusively solid ammo?

Eg: afaik, the MG 131 ammo mix was something like 2:1 of HE/I to AP.

[F4UDOA]

The book "Corsairs and Flattops" documents a F4U returning with over 40 20Mill holes from NIK2. Try that in AH.

And oh yeah. It says F4U can out turn NIK2 too, hehe. Imagine that in AH  

[Zigrat]

i have heard people say that a p38 outturns a zeke too. are we to believe that too f4udoa?

cmon i dont trust a damned thing a pilot says they are all fulll of bs, i trust math and wind tunnel tests alot more  

[niklas]

Originally posted by Zigrat:
i have heard people say that a p38 outturns a zeke too. are we to believe that too f4udoa?

cmon i dont trust a damned thing a pilot says they are all fulll of bs, i trust math and wind tunnel tests alot more  

hehe pilots who made the experience that the other plane could outturn them canīt tell this the rest of the world anymore   (Maybe a reason why we can read so many "my plane was better" statements today. The "my plane was worse" crowd is dead   )

niklas

[Fishu]

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
From my own perception, to kill a plane, u need to spray a continuous fire for at least 2 secs to kill a plane with .50s.

If you use canons, 3-4 pings and it's done, making snapshots more effectives.

I'm not complaining, it's just my observation.

When I've used .50s, I haven't had such 2 second problems.
2 seconds might be in reality less than second.
When you're playing, it will feel that everything takes long time, but in reality it takes just a very short time.
so 2 seconds is either gunners fault or exagerating of the time it takes.

[AKSWulfe]

I have a hard time accepting claims or requests when they have no data what-so-ever and don't include any reasoning.

You are asking for guns to be toned down because you think the uber-mausers should do a whole crap load of damage. Of course, 6x.50s will do a whole helluva lot more damage than 2x20mms with slow ROF unless you are up against a heavy bomber.

And honestly, if you are going by what you hear... that's rediculous because not all of the ping sounds play.

I regularly get kills with the 190A5's mausers with very few hits on the enemy... I don't think anything is wrong.
-SW

[F4UDOA]

Heya Zig,

Notice the winking smiley face   indicating the intended humor in my post.

Very much like, hey those 50cals shouldn't be able to hurt my plane.

[Pongo]

" (Maybe a reason why we can read so many "my plane was better" statements today. The "my plane was worse" crowd is dead "
he he good quote.
The guns seem well ballanced in relation to each other...
Gun cammera footage of how long a FW lasted under the guns of a jug or pony abounds....
it looks alot like AH to me.....

[Daff]

According to "Thunderbolt!", the P-47 can take 21 hits from a LW 20mm and over 200 mg hits...immediatly make the P-47 10 times as hard as it it now, please!

Daff