Author Topic: Mystery Plane  (Read 1002 times)

Offline Koed

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Mystery Plane
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2000, 03:40:00 AM »
Juzz:

Looks like the top pic is actualy a P47 Razorback .. the bottom one is a thunderbolt..

Offline Daff

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« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2000, 03:56:00 AM »
Erhh...they're both Thunderbolts...although the top one had the nickname "razorback" and the bottom one "Superbolt"

Daff


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Klatuu

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« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2000, 06:59:00 AM »
Ra, nice little discussion of the Jug you've started, lol. Light-weigth? I think not folks.  Biggest single engine fighter of the war, 6+ tons.  Incidentally, Republic Aviation is also responsible for the largest single engine fighter ever, at least US-the F105 Thunderchief, AKA UltraHog.  I would have said you were lookin for the Yak, but the part about there being no 9 sorta has me there.  Good riddle tho, will keep on it.
"Gort, Klatuu Barada Nicto"

Offline Daff

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« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2000, 08:59:00 AM »
It *did* start as a lightweight interceptor..
Here's a write-up I wrote last year...

 The History of the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt.
The development of the P-47 started in 1935. The Army was looking for a replacement of the Boing P-26 and 2 Russian born emigrants, Alexander Severski and Alexander Kartveli attracted the Army's interested with the SEV-1XP, renamed the P-35. Their main contender was Curtiss with their P-36, but in June 1936 Severski & Kartveli was awarded the contract of 76 P-35's.

 In 1939, While Severski was in England to promote his ideas, but back home he was voted out of the board of directors and had to accept a cash settlement for his position. He used those money to from a new company in October 1939, called the Republic Aviation Corporation and with him took Kartveli as his chief engineer.

Again the Army was looking for a new fighter and with new technology, ever increasing poweful engines were becoming available, although their reliability were mainly unproven.

 Initially Kartveli was aimin for a lightweight interceptor with as small an airframe as possible, using the new V-12 liquid-cooled Allison engine. The first design, named the AP-10 recieved a positive reception by the Army Board in August 1939 and Kartveli was asked to develop it.

 The original weight was 4600lbs, but as the army wanted provisions for bomb racks and other modifications, the weight rose to 4900lbs with 2 fuselage mounted machine guns.

 Initial performance estimates was 415mph at 15,000 feet and the plane was renamed the XP-47, but as the technology went further, the original design was deemed outdated and in January 1940 they agreed on re-designing it.

 Meanwhile, with air war in Europe highlighted several subjects and the army started to demand new features like armour plating & self-sealing fuel tanks. The Army Board also expressed concern about the Allison engine, but Kartveli had foreseen this by turning his attention on the Pratt & Whitney Double Wasp.

 Due to the massive size of the Double Wasp, Kartveli created a new airframe and the Republic submitted their new design, the XP-47B. The Army Board was quite encouraged with the armament of 6 0.50-in Browning machineguns, an estimated topspeed of 400mph at 20,000 feet and a climbrate of 5 minutes to 15,000 feet. The weight had now grown to 11,600 lbs, the biggest ever single seat fighter.

On the 6th of September 1940, the Army Air Corp issued a contract of 773 P-47B's.

 To get the promised performance of the Double Wasp, Kartveli decided to install a supercharger. Only problem was that it took up a lot of space, but by installing the main part of the unit in the rear fuselage, behind the pilot, he solved the problem.

 The first prototype, XP-47B (serial no. 40-3051), had looked nothing like the biplanes still used around the world and was for it's time, extremly futuristic with it's polished aluminium airframe, elliptical wings and closed canopy. It featured  the Curtiss Electric propeller, the first 4 bladed propeller to be fitted a US plane, the P&W Double Wasp, a 18 cylinder radial engine outputting a massive 2000hp and a fuel capacity of 305 gallons. From the P-35s 28 feet & 4600lbs, it had grown to more than 35 feet and a loaded weight of 12,500 lbs, the largest single seat fighter ever!.

 On the 6th of May, 1941, test pilot Lowery Brabham rolled the XP-47B down the runway at Farmingdale and the P-47 flew for the first time. Although smoke started to pour into the cockpit, Brabham flew for 20 minutes and due to the soft runway at Farmingdale from recent rain,diverted and landed succesfully at the nearby Mitchell Field. After several test flights, it gained a topspeed of 412 mph at 25,800 feet, fulfilling the promise of a topspeed over 400 mph and production of the first series of P-47B's started.

 A series of setbacks then followed. On the 26th of March 1942, chief test pilot George Burrell was killed during a test flight when the entire tail section broke away. On the 1st of May another P-47 was damaged in a high speed dive, but managed to land with most of the fabric covered rudder and elevator in shreds.

 The Republic strenghtened the airframe and fitted metal covered control surfaces, but as with other plane designs, the high-speed problems were only partially solved.

 In October 1942, 3 P-47C-1's were delivered to Army Air Force for combat evaluation test. An impressive topspeed of 427 mph was recorded, but the rate of climb was somewhat disappointing with 7 minutes to 15.000, not exactly what you expect from a interceptor fighter.

 It was the Republics Director for Military Contracts, C. Hart Miller who named it "Thunderbolt".

15,683 Thunderbolts were built during the war, more than any other allied fighter and it recorded 3,916 enemy plane kills, 6,000 tanks, 9,000 locomotives, 86,000 rail wagons and 68,000 trucks.
 

Daff

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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2000, 12:58:00 PM »
 
Quote
15,683 Thunderbolts were built during the war, more than any other allied fighter
Over 20,000 Spits built.

skeet

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« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2000, 04:33:00 PM »
Quote (Klatuu)
'Biggest single engine fighter of the war, 6+ tons.'

On aircraft weight: http://www.aviation-history.com/republic/p47.html
Weight empty 10,700 lb
Above is a quote is for 11,600 for the P47 - I assume this is 'weight empty'
 http://www.aviation-history.com/hawker/typhoon.html

'Without its underwing load the Typhoon IB weighed 11,300 Ib. and with two 500-lb. bombs and the necessary racks, 12,400 Ib.'

But does the 11,300 figure include fuel? It doesn't say 'weight empty'.

Anybody got a 'weight empty' for the Typhoon?

TIA

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[This message has been edited by skeet (edited 05-10-2000).]

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2000, 04:44:00 PM »
The Complete Book of Fighters, gives these numbers

Typhoon IB
Empty Weight: 9,800 lbs
Max Loaded Weight: 13,980 lbs

P-47C-5
Empty Weight: 9,900 lbs
Max Loaded Weight: 14,925 lbs

P-47D-35
Empty Weight: 10,000 lbs
Max Loaded Weight: 17,500 lbs

P-47N
Empty Weight: 11,170 lbs
Max Loaded Weight: 20,700 lbs



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Offline Daff

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« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2000, 04:33:00 AM »
Oops..good catch, Nashwan. (There was also some 30.000 odd (La-5's?..some Russian thingie <G> ) built.
It should of course had said US fighter.

Daff

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Offline qts

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« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2000, 04:41:00 PM »
Prettier than a Spitfire? Sorry, even if you're talking about the Seafire.

Offline Citabria

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« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2000, 04:55:00 PM »
sorry but the p-38 is King Brick of the Universe wieghing in empty at 12,000 lbs fully loaded w bombs at 20,000 lbs.

nothing comes close in initial dive.
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Daff

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« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2000, 05:07:00 PM »
The P-47N is only ~100lbs within those numbers. (And it had longer ranger too, nyeah neayh, neayh :P)

Daff

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Offline Rendar

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« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2000, 07:38:00 PM »
Klatuu, the P-47 was originally meant as a light-weight plane, but that design was scrapped.

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Rendar

Klatuu

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« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2000, 01:38:00 AM »
Typicall gov't project then, why have one when you can have two at twice the price, lol.  Oops, its 3 times as big as we meant.  Maybe they just forgot to change from metric to english, like NASA. (The 6+ tons number is assuming you put some fuel in it.  And a few thonsand rds .50 BMG.)  Citabria, I did qualify single engine.  But wasn't the P-61 a fighter?  Did it weigh more than the 38?  I agree qts, nothin's prettier than a Spitfire, in flames.  Whether or not the mystery plane is the Jug, I'd sure like to see it in AH, in Gabby's colors.

[This message has been edited by Klatuu (edited 05-13-2000).]