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Author Topic: P-38J, P-38L info..interesting  (Read 753 times)

Offline batdog

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« on: June 21, 2001, 01:47:00 PM »
Version: J

                                                    Length: 37' 10" ( 11.53M)
                                                     Height: 12' 10" ( 3.91M)
                                                   Wignspan: 52' 0" ( 15.85M)
                                               Wingarea: 328.00 Sq Ft ( 30.47Sq M)
                                               Empty Weight: 12380.0lbs (5614.00Kg)
                                               Gross Weight: 19500.0lbs (8843.00Kg)
                                               Max Weight: 20300.0lbs (9206.00Kg)
                                                          Propulsion
                                                        No. of Engines: 2
                                                 Powerplant: Allison V-1710-89/91
                                                     Horsepower 1425 each
                                                         Performance
                                                  Range: 350 miles ( 563.00 Km)
                                         Cruise Speed: 250.00 mph ( 402.00 Km/H / 217.30 Kt)
                                         Max Speed: 402.00 Mph ( 647.00 Km/H / 349.73 Kt)
                                               Climb: 3076.00 Ft/min ( 937.52 M/min)
                                                  Ceiling: 40000.0 Ft (12191.0M)

                                                         Version: L

                                                    Length: 37' 10" ( 11.53M)
                                                     Height: 9' 10" ( 3.00M)
                                                   Wignspan: 52' 0" ( 15.85M)
                                               Wingarea: 327.50 Sq Ft ( 30.42Sq M)
                                               Empty Weight: 12800.0lbs (5804.00Kg)
                                               Gross Weight: 20700.0lbs (9387.00Kg)
                                               Max Weight: 21600.0lbs (9795.00Kg)
                                                          Propulsion
                                                        No. of Engines: 2
                                                Powerplant: Allison V-1710-111/113
                                                     Horsepower 1475 each
                                                         Performance
                                                  Range: 450 miles ( 724.00 Km)
                                         Cruise Speed: 290.00 mph ( 466.00 Km/H / 251.89 Kt)
                                         Max Speed: 414.00 Mph ( 666.00 Km/H / 360.00 Kt)
                                               Climb: 2857.00 Ft/min ( 870.77 M/min)
                                                  Ceiling: 44000.0 Ft (13411.0M)


P38 looks like more of a MA sort of plane maybe... more wing area and lighter... means more meanverable?

xBAT
 
Opps... wingarea aint that much better... still it IS lighter  :) AND its GREEN!

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
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Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline F4UDOA

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2001, 02:39:00 PM »
Batdog,

Where di you get that data from? The climb rates seem a bit low.

Thanks
F4UDOA
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Offline batdog

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2001, 02:48:00 PM »
http://home.worldonline.dk/~winthrop/p38.html

ROC might of been w/out WEP perhaps

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
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Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline ispar

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2001, 06:19:00 PM »
Top speed for the J is too low. It should be 414 mph as well.

I believe that this was the same for the H as well, but perhaps not. All aircraft prior to J-10-LO (I think) were cleaner than those that followed.
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Offline batdog

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2001, 08:59:00 PM »
Hey lighter w/same speed is good... verrrry good.

xBAT
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Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Widewing

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2001, 09:53:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ispar:
Top speed for the J is too low. It should be 414 mph as well.

I believe that this was the same for the H as well, but perhaps not. All aircraft prior to J-10-LO (I think) were cleaner than those that followed.

Depending upon the state of tune of the engines, and how well the cowlings fit, the P-38J (any sub-model) should manage between 421-426 mph in combat power, which is 1,600 hp per engine. If the prop governors have been rigged for 3,200 rpm (as most were after the factory reps trained the mechanics), the P-38L should push 440 mph in combat power, which is 1,725 hp per engine.

Due to the problem with engine failures, most P-38 pilots flying in the ETO, would seldom engage WEP over Germany for fear that an engine would fail. Even after the arrival of the P-38J-25-LO and the P-38L-1-LO, with their greatly improved reliability, pilots remained leary of combat power usage. Once bitten, twice cautious.

My regards,

Widewing

My regards
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My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2001, 10:10:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by batdog:
       Version: J

  Climb: 3076.00 Ft/min ( 937.52 M/min)
                                                 
            Version: L
                                               Climb: 2857.00 Ft/min ( 870.77 M/min)
                                                  Ceiling: 44000.0 Ft (13411.0M)


As tested by the USAAF in 1943, the P-38J-10-LO, flown at gross combat weight, rate of climb was recorded as follows using 60.8 in/hg @ 3,000 rpm:

Sea Level: 4,050 fpm.
Critical Alt (23,400 ft) 2,900 fpm.

Similar testing on the P-38L-1-LO, using 62.4 in/hg @ 3,200 rpm:

Sea Level: 4,170 fpm.
Critical Alt (28,700 ft) 2,750 fpm.

Of all USAAF fighters serving in WWII, the P-38L was the best climber by a substantial margin.

My regards,

Widewing
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My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Nashwan

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2001, 10:55:00 PM »
How widespread was the use of 3200rpm and 1725hp on the P-38L? Did it require any other modifications, or special fuel? I have seen vague refernces to 115/145 fuel being required, but all the information seems a bit sketchy.
I'd be very gratefull for any futher information.
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Offline ispar

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2001, 11:10:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing:


Depending upon the state of tune of the engines, and how well the cowlings fit, the P-38J (any sub-model) should manage between 421-426 mph in combat power, which is 1,600 hp per engine. If the prop governors have been rigged for 3,200 rpm (as most were after the factory reps trained the mechanics), the P-38L should push 440 mph in combat power, which is 1,725 hp per engine.

Really?  :eek: Not to question you Widewing, you are a fountain of knowledge, but I have never seen this data before. What is your source, if I may? Might be good reading.
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Offline eddiek

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2001, 04:56:00 AM »
Not to hijack this thread at all, but............if the P38's are set up to reflect the fact that the birds got a tweaking from their mechanics after the factory reps showed them how, then IMHO, the Jugs ought to get the tweaks commonly performed, like increased MAP to 72", paddle prop, etc..
I hope they both get whatever mods were actually done on a "common" basis, or however you want to term it.
People always talk about wanting "realism" in the sims, yet they balk at a plane being given tweaks, claiming it is unfair.  What I consider unfair is ignoring the fact that in "RL", the vast majority of a plane type underwent mods as soon as they entered the combat zone they were assigned to, mods to bring them up to unit standards and make them survivable in combat.  If ya want the so-called "realism", find out what the pilots actually flew, not just what the factory data says, model it that way, and see what happens.  I know a lot would balk at the idea, but in RL, the Jug did not have a negative k/d ratio (it also did not fight other Allied planes, I know    :D, but that is another topic for another time )......it was overwhelmingly positive, and a lot of it was due to the fact that they had uprated engines, etc., not factory stock machines like we have in AH.

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: eddiek ]
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Offline batdog

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2001, 08:53:00 AM »
I wasnt trying to do anything other than post some interesting data and see what others had to say about it.

xBAT

P.S. So... would the STOCK J model be of any use in MA... perhaps turn better? You expert out there comment   :)

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
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Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Widewing

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2001, 10:36:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ispar:


Really?    :eek: Not to question you Widewing, you are a fountain of knowledge, but I have never seen this data before. What is your source, if I may? Might be good reading.

This data can be found in several locations. However, I suggest that you obtain a copy of Warren Bodie's P-38 book. It's being re-released in softcover, having been out of print for several years. Check with motorbooks.com for availablity. Warren and I proposed adding a proper index, and I wanted him to correct several minor mistakes, but Motorbooks wanted delivery before the summer.
So, the changes were never made. Nonetheless, Warren's book is the standard against which all other P-38 efforts are measured. Bodie was an Engineer on Johnson's "Skunk Works" staff.

If all else fails, you can obtain USAAF test data on microfilm from the National Archive and USAF history branch. Prices are reasonable, but you must be able to specify which roll of microfilm you wish to have duplicated.

My regards,

Widewing

[ 06-24-2001: Message edited by: Widewing ]
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My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2001, 10:43:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by batdog:
I wasnt trying to do anything other than post some interesting data and see what others had to say about it.

You didn't do anything wrong, so there's no reason to apologize. There is a great deal of published data on the P-38, and much of it is incorrect, or taken out of context. Unless you are extremely well versed on the Lightning, you could not tell which is accurate, and which isn't. Your post allowed us to discuss the data, and everyone benefitted from that (I hope).

My regards,

Widewing
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My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline batdog

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2001, 11:26:00 AM »
I'm going to order that book. Thanks Widewing.

xBAT
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Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline batdog

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P-38J, P-38L info..interesting
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2001, 11:42:00 AM »
Darn it... Amazon is sold out...LOL.
I found an interesting link. It contains alot of goodies.
 
 http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P38.html

xBAT
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Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu
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