Author Topic: Clarification  (Read 2563 times)

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2010, 09:34:14 AM »
I play by the same rules as you, pretty much, but to better your flying I give you this on the HO. A LOT of guys go for the HO. Most don't know better, and those that do use it as their "kill shot" they practice no other move and bet everything on killing you in the first pass. Some of the big names you see landing kills do this.

In the first picture you are accepting the HO by going nose to nose. You are giving up your first chance of beating this loser. By doing this your almost as bad as the HOer, but seeing as your new we'll say your in the "just don't know better" group.  :D
 



In this picture you can see that we can avoid the HO and get ahead of the opponent in our angles by NOT going nose to nose. Sure the "red guy" will most likely turn into you so the advantage you get won't be as dramatic as shown here, but you get the idea.
 


This is one of the ways you avoid a HO. Some times you have no choice when flying against the horde you will end up nose to nose and some sort of "jink" or roll can help you avoid getting shot. I concentrate more in avoiding getting hit in those instances than concentrating on hitting with my own HO shot.

Avoid the HO and be a better cartoon pilot!

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2010, 10:59:42 AM »

I don't understand why somebody would not want to fight in a fighting game. If they extend out and come back with the advantage that is fine as long as they come back and fight, I just don't like seeing the ones who see a person with a slight advantage and decide oh I am gonna run and just not go back.

Well when you get a little more experience in the game you'll realize the runner may have had several reasons for his actions.

He may have been out of ammo or low on fuel. He may have detected several of your friends approaching in the background and decided he'd die for sure if he let you engage. He may have just concluded that he's against a superior skill pilot and/or aircraft and saw his only option to live is to extend.

Maybe he was just a noob trying to live. You may not like it a bit that he denied the kill from you but he was probably happy to get to base safe and possibly land a kill or two.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline LCCajun

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2010, 11:04:39 AM »
I guess you didn't read my 1st post all the way. If you did you would have seen where I said if the guy tells me he is rtb due to ammo, damage, or fuel I will give him a <S> and be on my way. Some ppl just assume they know what a post says instead of reading it all the way. As for as the part where you say he may have decided he is against a superior pilot, then why wouldn't you fight. I am hoping he would turn his record on and engage so he could possibly learn something. I am a crappy pilot, but I will never run from a fight b/c I think the guy is better then me, hell even if I know he is better I won't run.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 11:09:40 AM by LCCajun »
Ingame ID: Cajon

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2010, 11:08:14 AM »
Then again once you've been here longer you'll realize they are just runners..... they lost their superior position in a superior plane and won't ever learn how to regain that superiority. They get in the habit of running.
80th FS "Headhunters"

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2010, 01:19:39 PM »
Well when you get a little more experience in the game you'll realize the runner may have had several reasons for his actions.

He may have been out of ammo or low on fuel. He may have detected several of your friends approaching in the background and decided he'd die for sure if he let you engage. He may have just concluded that he's against a superior skill pilot and/or aircraft and saw his only option to live is to extend.

Maybe he was just a noob trying to live. You may not like it a bit that he denied the kill from you but he was probably happy to get to base safe and possibly land a kill or two.

You'll learn that score is more important than a good fight.


After you've been here a bit longer you'll realize that no body DIES ! planes are free and plentiful. Fight from a disadvantage. You might surprise your self and find out your a more skilled cartoon pilot than you thought, or you might learn something and become a better cartoon pilot.

Offline MutleyBR

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2010, 01:45:49 PM »
Pretty much the way it goes, rarely will you find a guy who won't try to Ho anymore.

Actually, they're getting better at it...

Latest fashion is HOing with tracers off....

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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2010, 01:57:55 PM »
I guess you didn't read my 1st post all the way. If you did you would have seen where I said if the guy tells me he is rtb due to ammo, damage, or fuel I will give him a <S> and be on my way. Some ppl just assume they know what a post says instead of reading it all the way. As for as the part where you say he may have decided he is against a superior pilot, then why wouldn't you fight. I am hoping he would turn his record on and engage so he could possibly learn something. I am a crappy pilot, but I will never run from a fight b/c I think the guy is better then me, hell even if I know he is better I won't run.

Lol and you run into the false assumption that everyone has channel 200 tuned and/or they actually can type while flying and operating views.

You see, you have no way of knowing whats the motivation of the other player. You can only see him escaping from you and you get po'd over nothing.

You say you never run from fight even if you know you're fighting a losing battle. Well what if that other player gets his kicks from surviving and making it home instead? You get your kicks from furballing but don't expect everyone else to play the game your way.

Running is more historic than furballing - most flights ended up with no kills. Usually when attacker loses advantage they either dive to escape or climb to a cloud. AH is unrealistic in the sense that you can't really hide yourself in clouds like in real world pilots used to do.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline shiv

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2010, 02:06:16 PM »
If you don't like to get HOed don't HO.

If you don't like to get ganged then don't gang.

If you don't like being ran from then don't run. (Although there's a difference between running and dragging.)

If you don't like ack draggers then don't drag to ack.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.


Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2010, 02:41:13 PM »
If you don't like to get HOed don't HO.

If you don't like to get ganged then don't gang.

If you don't like being ran from then don't run. (Although there's a difference between running and dragging.)

If you don't like ack draggers then don't drag to ack.



The point is that while we do it ourselves we find it justified to survive. When others do it we find it unfair and lame.

I admit to HO'ing when I'm fighting against a superior aeroplane type and that HO might be my only kill shot I can take for example. If I can outmanouver him I will.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Soulyss

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2010, 02:52:10 PM »
Ok, I've actually figured out how to keep a fighter level, and (believe it or not) shoot someone down. While playing in the MA, I've noticed that there seems to be some unwritten rules. Don't KS, don't HO, that sort of thing. In trying to comply, I finally just gave up and made up my own rules.

If you turn into me head-on, I play chicken. If I see a flash I open up. It seems that most of the fights I've seen have been ho, pass, turn, ho, pass, turn, ho. (That's why I play chicken and open up now)

Check 6 as often as I can. If another pilot is chasing a runner, shadow but don't engage. Check if other pilot needs help or not. If friendly is being chased, don't ask just dive.

Don't shoot burning bombers.

My question is, how far off am I? I want to be a respectable pilot, are these respectable actions?



Seems like a reasonable set of standards, everyone has their own as you can tell by all the head on attack/runner threads that pop up and drag on and on w/out resolution.  I think the trick to enjoying fighters in this game is to find a mix of success and learning experiences.  The quickest way to get a certain level of success early on is to up a very fast plane and zip around at high speed and blast anything that get's in front of you. Granted there are some lessons to be learned playing this way but I think it's a road that ultimately dead ends rather quickly, it doesn't leave the practitioner with any exposure to a large part of cartoon aerial combat.  The same can be true for the head on artist, a lot of newer players like to use it because 50-50 odds are better than what they will have in a maneuvering engagement (at first).  

Learning experiences are often not so pleasant, odds are good that if you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation then you're having a learning experience.  For myself that meant that I started using a slower plane, I took the trump card (speed) out of my hand and forced myself to fight in the slower part of the flight envelope and I would just tell myself that I was going to die a lot for a little while, if I started getting frustrated I would go back to what was comfortable for a few sorties, switching back and forth.  I've read a lot of articles and books trying to get better of the years but the best thing is still to learn by doing, having someone to work with can greatly speed up that process.  I wish I had swallowed some pride years ago when I started and asked for more help.

One thing you can do to avoid the jousting style of fights is go to the training arena or email trainers @ hitechcreations . com and set up an appointment to work on merges.  If it looks like the bad guy is going to go for the head on attack then you can predict what flight path he's going to take and anytime you have a pretty good idea of what his flight path is going to be then you can exploit it to your advantage.

A good fight versus another fighter is one of the best things that this game has to offer because I've been doing it for ten years now and I'm still learning things which keeps it interesting.  On the other hand I think it can also be the most frustrating so ask questions, you'll find that there are many people here who will go out of their way to answer or work with someone who is politely asking for assistance.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 02:58:52 PM by Soulyss »
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Offline bj229r

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2010, 03:05:13 PM »
If your goal is to have more than 1 kill per sortie, Ho'ing at first contact isn't the vehicle to get there. It's like playing Russian Roulette over and over
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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Offline LCCajun

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2010, 03:07:33 PM »
MadHatter sorry bout the hijack man. If you go to the TA see if Ren or any other trainers are in there. They helped me out alot. Also if you need somebody to shoot at for practice jsut find me and I will be more then happy to be a target. My ingame id is Cajon <S> sir GL.
Ingame ID: Cajon

"SlapShot
There is no shame in putting up a good fight and dieing."
"You never know how strong you are til being strong is the only choice you have" Unknown author

Offline shiv

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2010, 03:21:25 PM »
The point is that while we do it ourselves we find it justified to survive. When others do it we find it unfair and lame.

I admit to HO'ing when I'm fighting against a superior aeroplane type and that HO might be my only kill shot I can take for example. If I can outmanouver him I will.

The point is don't do it at all.  Don't HO, or only HO 262s if that;s your thing.  Don't gang, and don't ack-run from a 1v1.  And if you have gas, ammo, and your plane isn't shot up then turn and fight if it's only one plane chasing you.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.


Offline hlbly

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2010, 07:17:03 PM »
Hatter you got to decide for yourself . Listen to the advice given , think about the guys you admire in the game . It is your place to decide . I want to add 2cents . Sometimes it is about moments like this . Picture this 3 38 dweebs upping for a big low fight getting killed at different times and upping as fast as we can get back in to get another shot on a zero . I wont give any names away..........Back woods dweller to guy who doesn't lift his feet very high up off the ground as he walks........Look at <we will use a random common name> Dan 3,4,no 5 red guys all around him he is by hissel........oh Dan is gone .........Guy who doesn't lift his feet high to backwoods  dweller ..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl......backwoods dweller to dan < now lifting again> and guy who don't lift his feet off ground as he walks ..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl  Price to play game 15 bucks.......price of this moment ......You decide .

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Clarification
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2010, 07:23:10 PM »
The point is don't do it at all.  Don't HO, or only HO 262s if that;s your thing.  Don't gang, and don't ack-run from a 1v1.  And if you have gas, ammo, and your plane isn't shot up then turn and fight if it's only one plane chasing you.

And why not? During the pacific campaign HO was the official approach to attack against the Japanese. It's someones stupid invention that limits the use of HO attack. If you can do it and fly away with it, why not. Of course it sucks to the losing party. But to put it the other way around, it's he's fault he got into the position to be HO'd at in the first place.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone