Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates - get ur pencils out

[thorsim]

in some cases the armament loads were options for a type, like in the case of the pony D, and did not constitute a type change.

type change by load out would be a CM nightmare, i think. 

[USCH]

Another example i have from the Aircraft Encyclopedia: The Ar-234B-0 first flew in June of 1944, this being the prototype of the production model. It was then issued to evaluation units and used with 3 reconnaissance Staffeln for high altitude flights over britain. (here im assuming there is more then one by now) A fourth Staffel recived the ar234 in Italy.

But it wasnt untill the start of the "Blitz" part of the Battle of the bulge that KG76 used it operationally in Sept. 1944.

So do we go with the recon flights of the few small groups (of witch i dont know the 1st flights yet) or do we go with Sep 1944 with the first Geschwader flight?

[thorsim]

same with the dora and the 262, you will find the allies getting shot down and the germans deploying them had very different ideas as to what constituted operational ...

that is why i like the engaged with enemy, or kills in or kills by, most of those dates agree.

even the missions are fuzzy as to "operational" and its meaning, which was certainly different between the combatants at least ...

[Karnak]

same with the dora and the 262, you will find the allies getting shot down and the germans deploying them had very different ideas as to what constituted operational ...

that is why i like the engaged with enemy, or kills in or kills by, most of those dates agree.

even the missions are fuzzy as to "operational" and its meaning, which was certainly different between the combatants at least ...

First squadron to be equipped with the Spitfire Mk XIV received their first on in Dec. 1943 and had squadron strength in Jan. 1944.  First kill by a Spitfire Mk XIV was in March of 1944.  The list has the Spitfire Mk XIV listed as May 1944, when they started doing offensive actions with them.

[thorsim]

it must be very confusing and frustrating finding out that you were shot down by a plane the wasn't actually deployed yet 

[Soulyss]

I found the following in "North American B-25 Mitchell The Ultimate Look: From Drawing Board to Flying Arsenal" by William Wolf

B-25Cwas first delivered in January 1941

B-25Hwas first delivered in August 1943

This book is primary concerned with the development of the B-25 and seems to be less concerned with the operational details I'll have to do some more digging to see if I can find first operational use.

[thorsim]

another thing to consider is that as the war progressed how do you handle updated replacement aircraft.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Bott4.jpg

as this photo clearly shows do to pragmatic reasons squadrons were operating many different types on missions because that is what they had, that looks like a "razorback" pony in the #4 slot (poor choice for tail end charlie) ...

this just calls operational definitions into an even more difficult light and shows how difficult the OPs goals actually are.

IMO all this info should be posted by the game developers as much as possible right down to the block numbers of the planes they choose to model with all the history of the type including the specific history of all the skinned airframes whenever possible.  this would be a service to the community and serve to provide an interesting read for all of us who take the historic aspect of the game seriously

[Karnak]

You can also see that one of the Ds in that photo is from a later block as it has the tail fillet.

[USCH]

another thing to consider is that as the war progressed how do you handle updated replacement aircraft.

(Image removed from quote.)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Bott4.jpg

as this photo clearly shows do to pragmatic reasons squadrons were operating many different types on missions because that is what they had, that looks like a "razorback" pony in the #4 slot (poor choice for tail end charlie) ...

this just calls operational definitions into an even more difficult light and shows how difficult the OPs goals actually are.

IMO all this info should be posted by the game developers as much as possible right down to the block numbers of the planes they choose to model with all the history of the type including the specific history of all the skinned airframes whenever possible.  this would be a service to the community and serve to provide an interesting read for all of us who take the historic aspect of the game seriously

All 4 P51's are of different model thats why the photo was taken. I cant recall exactily why they did this but im 100% positive they are all different. the end one is a P51B you have a P51D and P-51K and i cant tell what the other one is. I can tell you the flight was stricktly to take this photo though. but it was during the war at least.

[thorsim]

i had no information saying this was a staged photo ...

however my point is replacement aircraft were whatever was being produced and delivered and specific types flown
on any given day were not likely to be all the same after a little attrition had taken place ...

not out of the realm of possibilities that some of a type were used before an entire squadron with the new type had rotated into the area.

[MiloMorai]

All 4 P51's are of different model thats why the photo was taken. I cant recall exactily why they did this but im 100% positive they are all different. the end one is a P51B you have a P51D and P-51K and i cant tell what the other one is. I can tell you the flight was stricktly to take this photo though. but it was during the war at least.

left to right

413410 > 44-13253/14052 P-51D-5-NA
413926 > 44-13253/14052 P-51D-5-NA
413568 > 44-13253/14052 P-51D-5-NA
210**11 > either a P-51C-1-NT or -10-NT

[USCH]

i had no information saying this was a staged photo ...

however my point is replacement aircraft were whatever was being produced and delivered and specific types flown
on any given day were not likely to be all the same after a little attrition had taken place ...

not out of the realm of possibilities that some of a type were used before an entire squadron with the new type had rotated into the area.

this is true as well (mainly for bombers more than fighters i think). From what i ahave seen when new bombers came over with there crews they almost always got taken away right away and put into action relitivly soon there after, and the crew when they were ready for combat ops got an older beat up version of there new aircraft they just flew over to the combat theater. I dont think anyone waited for a full group beore using there new B24J's

[USCH]

How is 413926 the same as the other two when it clearly has a different tail on it? I don't doubt you if you have the proper info, but it seems odd and I'm sure i read about it as i read 2 books with 2 of the 4 pilots and i know they said they were all different. maybe they were wrong.

[MiloMorai]

How is 413926 the same as the other two when it clearly has a different tail on it? I don't doubt you if you have the proper info, but it seems odd and I'm sure i read about it as i read 2 books with 2 of the 4 pilots and i know they said they were all different. maybe they were wrong.

Because the fin fillet was a mod added to earlier models.

[thorsim]

it goes both ways too ...

i.e. one of the new ones gets shot up and an older one flies while the new one is down for repairs ...

milo is correct about the mod ...

since the model in the game is such a late version i am not sure, and pretty much doubt, that either the 8th or 9th AF had completely rotated into it before the end of the war in europe ...

that i am not sure about though ...