Something I did but can't repeat.

[W7LPNRICK]

Quite a few months ago I had practiced a maneuver in a spit 9 & had it down fairly good. I think it is a type of scissor, flat or partial rolling. I was low over a base at 230 knts and a high pony was on my six diving fast. I pulled back and to the left with full right rudder at the same time. My spit did a very tight, very fast, barrel roll, with the pony diving through the loop, ending up perfectly in front of my guns. He bit the dust. I must have gotten excited, because I lost it and can't duplicate the maneuver. I have tried very frustratedly, without success. I either get an Out-Of-Control spin like a dart (easily shot down) or a very slow wide barrel roll.      

[Qrsu]

Someone will probably come along and answer this for you - however, it would be a little easier to see what you mean if you film your attempts (even if it doesn't work) just to see what you mean. I don't fly the Spit 9 a whole lot so I don't know the flight envelope very well but from what you described, it sounds like a snap roll. Try just pulling the stick back and left and apply left rudder. If you use a finite amount of rudder you'll find you can control it to snap to a certain bank angle.

Try looking up Morfiend in the Training Arena... I think he may be able to help you rediscover this "magic move".  

[W7LPNRICK]

Someone will probably come along and answer this for you - however, it would be a little easier to see what you mean if you film your attempts (even if it doesn't work) just to see what you mean. I don't fly the Spit 9 a whole lot so I don't know the flight envelope very well but from what you described, it sounds like a snap roll. Try just pulling the stick back and left and apply left rudder. If you use a finite amount of rudder you'll find you can control it to snap to a certain bank angle.

Try looking up Morfiend in the Training Arena... I think he may be able to help you rediscover this "magic move".  

Maybe i was gentler the first few times & the excitement of the clean kill screwed me up so now I'm choking?  

[TequilaChaser]

Someone will probably come along and answer this for you - however, it would be a little easier to see what you mean if you film your attempts (even if it doesn't work) just to see what you mean. I don't fly the Spit 9 a whole lot so I don't know the flight envelope very well but from what you described, it sounds like a snap roll. Try just pulling the stick back and left and apply left rudder. If you use a finite amount of rudder you'll find you can control it to snap to a certain bank angle.

Try looking up Morfiend in the Training Arena... I think he may be able to help you rediscover this "magic move".  

Cursed is correct... you did a snap roll   and yes with a lot of practicing you'll figure out how to :

If you use a finite amount of rudder you'll find you can control it to snap to a certain bank angle.

and using opposite aileron to stop the roll at that angle

TC

[W7LPNRICK]

Cursed is correct... you did a snap roll   and yes with a lot of practicing you'll figure out how to :
and using opposite aileron to stop the roll at that angle

TC

Yes I'd heard snap roll & that just sounded right, it was very wide with the tail and tight in the loop, I mostly fly other planes, but can't figure it out again.... Tried again today and spin spin spin is all I get. Too fast? Too much aileron? 

[EskimoJoe]

I think, and this is just my personal opinion, you're trying to hard to duplicated it. Fly around, try it relaxed a few times over and over, try it a little different each time it fails. Note what happens when you do it this way, that way, and the other way, then piece together and see if you can duplicate it again  

[stran]

perhaps it was more him flying through your sights and not you maneuvering into position. 

[Qrsu]

perhaps it was more him flying through your sights and not you maneuvering into position.  

It may very well be. However, it is the maneuvering itself that is important - IMO. If you're able to smoothly move from one maneuver to the other in combat... gun solutions will produce themselves without you worrying about how you'll make a super move for the next shot.

W7LPNRICK, I went ahead and tested out the Spit IX's snap rolls... it does seem to want to spin quite a bit if you put too much english into it. Just try to ease your way though the rolls with a bit of rudder and elevator backpressure... and like TC said -  reverse aileron at the desired bank angle to stop it.

NOTE: In of itself, the snap roll probably isn't considered ACM... it's more of a component of it. I use it only if I remember to and usually if I'm trying to shake a bandit lodged on my six while in the middle of some kind of scissors. I wouldn't recommend relying on it to bring you gun solutions (although in some extreme cases... it does!). I find that co-oridinated rolls using RUDDER and reducing the G-load on the wings during the roll (not pulling hard on the stick) can get you over to the desired angle of bank quick and smoothly.

Not to say the snaproll shouldn't be used... practice it and keep it in your back pocket for those dire situations where it can surprise people. Don't get frustrated if it's not easy to do at first. If you get stuck take some time and schedule an hour or two with a trainer - some of the most patient people in the game - to work on it and maybe help you on WHERE to use it.

Good luck with everything,

Cursed

[W7LPNRICK]

It may very well be. However, it is the maneuvering itself that is important - IMO. If you're able to smoothly move from one maneuver to the other in combat... gun solutions will produce themselves without you worrying about how you'll make a super move for the next shot.

W7LPNRICK, I went ahead and tested out the Spit IX's snap rolls... it does seem to want to spin quite a bit if you put too much english into it. Just try to ease your way though the rolls with a bit of rudder and elevator backpressure... and like TC said -  reverse aileron at the desired bank angle to stop it.

NOTE: In of itself, the snap roll probably isn't considered ACM... it's more of a component of it. I use it only if I remember to and usually if I'm trying to shake a bandit lodged on my six while in the middle of some kind of scissors. I wouldn't recommend relying on it to bring you gun solutions (although in some extreme cases... it does!). I find that co-oridinated rolls using RUDDER and reducing the G-load on the wings during the roll (not pulling hard on the stick) can get you over to the desired angle of bank quick and smoothly.

Not to say the snaproll shouldn't be used... practice it and keep it in your back pocket for those dire situations where it can surprise people. Don't get frustrated if it's not easy to do at first. If you get stuck take some time and schedule an hour or two with a trainer - some of the most patient people in the game - to work on it and maybe help you on WHERE to use it.

Good luck with everything,

Cursed

Yes, I understand it's limitation. It was purposeful when I set him up. I knew he was too fast and unable to turn quickly to get out of my sight picture. It got me out of his sights, and him in mine. I agree with your assessment were I've been trying too hard. It will come back when I get under control and a bit more gentle on the stick & of course I'm thinking this through as part of a response and not the whole answer. Thanx!