Author Topic: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.  (Read 5212 times)

Offline jdbecks

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1460
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2010, 06:32:55 PM »
Did I misunderstand the question? 

Is it why do we have to have the permit to carry or why do we get a permit to carry?

No you understood the question ok, I was just wondering why people need to have a permit to carry a concelled weapon. Im from the UK, so its something I was not aware off.

If you have a permit, you can carry a gun anywhere for instance? to go shopping etc. My question was not intended to be sarcastic or anything..it was just out of curiosity  :) 
JG11

...Only the proud, only the strong...
www.JG11.org

Offline Dadsguns

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1979
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2010, 06:40:37 PM »
Ive always wondered, and im sure the law varies state from state. But lets say you get pulled over for speeding or something. Do you have to straight up tell the officer that you have a gun, with the license to do so. What happens from there?

I would guess the officer would ask ya to get out of the car, show him the license and let him know where the gun is? Or how does this work?

Yes.  I would declare that I have a weapon to an officer anytime I am confronted by one, hands on the wheel where he can see them to prevent him from reacting.  Better safe than sorry. 


"Your intelligence is measured by those around you; if you spend your days with idiots you seal your own fate."

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2010, 07:09:07 PM »
I've never "rolled over" for anyone, on any of my rights. You'd be unwise to test your little assumption about me, as you'd quickly find yourself in an extremely precarious position. As much as you assume, you'll eventually assume a position you'll wish you had not gotten yourself into.

Again, you advise people to place themselves at risk for no real reason. Rather than extend a law enforcement officer a little common courtesy, in many states required by law, you propose that people should "exercise their rights" :rolleyes:, and then you get self righteous and begin to preach about "jack booted thugs"  :rolleyes: Here you are demanding a measure of courtesy from a law enforcement officer doing his job, and yet you refuse to extend that officer a common courtesy, and you also advise people to do the same. Looks a great deal like the absolute height in hypocrisy, but that is not at all surprising.

Advising people who are going to carry a weapon legally with a permit to avoid normal courteous disclosure and cooperation with law enforcement officers is problematic at best, and considering that you make rash and unfounded assumptions about people whom you know nothing about, quite risky for people taking such advice.

You are extremely quick to give people advice that can easily get a person taking that advice into serious legal trouble, as well as serious physical danger. It would be funny to read your posturing, if not for the fact that it could easily get someone arrested or even shot, regardless of whether they were legally right or wrong.

If you are in violation of any motor vehicle code, to the point where an officer pulls you over, you have reached the point where an officer not only has at least a measure of probable cause, but also he does have a reasonable expectation that you will provide legal identification, as well as the requisite paperwork for the vehicle. So an expectation that you would also show a CCW permit if you have one is not even remotely close to "unreasonable search and seizure". Regardless of how much you'd like to present that as fact, it has never been proven in court, that I am aware of.

As a former sheriff's deputy, I have worked with many state and local agencies, and most federal agencies, so I'm fairly familiar with SOP and normal department policies.

You may not like a department policy that allows or requires officers to take your weapon temporarily, but the fact that you do not like it has absolutely no bearing on anything other than your preference. What you like does not matter at all, such policies do exist, in dozens of jurisdictions. In fact, I can tell you that if you don't like having your weapon taken from you, in most jurisdictions, you would be much better off to inform the officer that you have a CCW and your weapon. Because with most agencies, the policy and SOP is to take the weapon if it is discovered, and detain the person in possession of the weapon.

It is really amusing how some people have decided that not offering a little courtesy themselves and demanding it of others has become "exercising your constitutional rights". Sad, but still amusing.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2010, 07:12:53 PM »
No you understood the question ok, I was just wondering why people need to have a permit to carry a concelled weapon. Im from the UK, so its something I was not aware off.

If you have a permit, you can carry a gun anywhere for instance? to go shopping etc. My question was not intended to be sarcastic or anything..it was just out of curiosity  :) 

Since we have the right to own firearms, in many states we also have the option to get a permit to carry a firearm concealed on our person for our own protection.

If you have such a permit, you may carry your weapon in many, but not all places. In many states, you cannot carry your weapon into a government building, a school, or where alcoholic beverages are sold or served, among other places.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2010, 07:56:20 PM »
virgil, the constitution says "keep and bear arms", it don't say "keep and bear arms if you have a permit but only in some places", that is a infringement.

Offline bcadoo

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 685
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2010, 08:27:36 PM »
I have been pulled over 4 times in the last 10 years or so since I've had my CHL.  In each instance I was carrying.  Texas requires me to inform the officer that I'm carrying and display my license.  In each case the officer asked where the weapon was (in the glove box) and that was it.

On a side note.  In Texas it is a CONCEALED handgun license.  It is a crime to NOT conceal the weapon. (unless you would be justified using deadly force)
The fight is the fun........Don't run from the fun!
"Nothin' cuts the taste of clam juice like a big hunk o' chocolate" - Rosie O'Donnell

Offline Jayhawk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3909
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2010, 10:15:10 PM »
No you understood the question ok, I was just wondering why people need to have a permit to carry a concelled weapon. Im from the UK, so its something I was not aware off.

If you have a permit, you can carry a gun anywhere for instance? to go shopping etc. My question was not intended to be sarcastic or anything..it was just out of curiosity  :) 

I can't carry into schools or any Federal property for that matter.  The law here in Kansas is relatively new (2007) so the statues have been changing and finding their place since.  To put it simply, with the exception of federal property and certain state buildings, I can carry anywhere there is not a proper concealed carry sign. http://www.ksag.org/files/shared/concealcarrysignage.pdf  The law has been changed slightly to only allow buildings to be restricted.  Basically that means cities can't put signs outside public parks or on the side of buses.  I know that a shopping mall close to me has the proper signage on it's main entrances but some of the department stores have chosen not to put up the signs.  I can legally enter through those stores and into the entire mall because the entrance was not marked.  When the law first came out, signs went up everywhere!  Businesses were scared of wild west vigilante shootouts.  To the best of my knowledge, since 2007 there have been two instances where a concealed carry holder has used their firearm, both in a legal manner and no charges are being filed.  Stores have realized concealed carry holders are responsible and are stores are safer because of it. Anyway, if you have any more questions about the philosophy of concealed carry feel free to ask, I'd be glad to give you my take on it.

Here is an interesting bit I'll be voting on this fall:
On Thursday, March 26, Senate Concurrent Resolution
No. 1611 passed out of the Kansas State House by a vote
of 116 to 9. SCR 1611, sponsored by State Senator Mike
Petersen (R-28), is a constitutional amendment that
would change the wording of Section 4 of the Kansas
Constitution to specifically preserve and reflect an
individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms, not a collective
right. SCR 1611 will now be put on the 2010 General
Election Ballot.
LOOK EVERYBODY!  I GOT MY NAME IN LIGHTS!

Folks, play nice.

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13919
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2010, 10:18:41 PM »
Virgil,
Save your time. That guy is a legal legend in his own mind and you are not going to change his mind about his cherished assumptions. All you can do is hope that some of the folks here read what he says and realize that following his "advice" is a good way to end up in plenty of trouble.

DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Obie303

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1775
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2010, 11:10:19 PM »
Coshy, I did some more digging.  I was wrong about the banks.  Like you said, it was federal property and places where federal employees work. 

There have been so many changes to the gun laws in this country, it can be very difficult to keep up with them.  Being educated about the subject is very important.  The key here is to know what your state requires and always ask more than one person if you have questions.  Even cops can be wrong.  (And its very rare to get one to admit it.)
I have fought a good fight,
I have finished my course,
I have kept the faith.
(quote on a Polish pilot's grave marker in Nottinghamshire, England)

71 (Eagle) Squadron

Offline Flench

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3104
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2010, 07:16:58 AM »
In Mississippi you can carry one as long as it's not CONCEALED and if you want to conceal it then you have to get a handgun license . I have mine fixed to the driver's door .When you open the door you can see it and it's very easy to get to , if in need .
Army of Muppets-"Failure is impossible"-Death before dishonor
         Lead follow or get out of the way  !!

Offline Jayhawk

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3909
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2010, 07:59:33 AM »
In Mississippi you can carry one as long as it's not CONCEALED and if you want to conceal it then you have to get a handgun license . I have mine fixed to the driver's door .When you open the door you can see it and it's very easy to get to , if in need .

I looked it up a little, so it is basically state regulated open carry?
LOOK EVERYBODY!  I GOT MY NAME IN LIGHTS!

Folks, play nice.

Offline Flench

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3104
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2010, 08:02:39 AM »
Yes , as long as you don't have it concealed ..
Army of Muppets-"Failure is impossible"-Death before dishonor
         Lead follow or get out of the way  !!

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22408
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2010, 08:05:48 AM »
I've never "rolled over" for anyone, on any of my rights. You'd be unwise to test your little assumption about me, as you'd quickly find yourself in an extremely precarious position. As much as you assume, you'll eventually assume a position you'll wish you had not gotten yourself into.

Again, you advise people to place themselves at risk for no real reason. Rather than extend a law enforcement officer a little common courtesy, in many states required by law, you propose that people should "exercise their rights" :rolleyes:, and then you get self righteous and begin to preach about "jack booted thugs"  :rolleyes: Here you are demanding a measure of courtesy from a law enforcement officer doing his job, and yet you refuse to extend that officer a common courtesy, and you also advise people to do the same. Looks a great deal like the absolute height in hypocrisy, but that is not at all surprising.

Advising people who are going to carry a weapon legally with a permit to avoid normal courteous disclosure and cooperation with law enforcement officers is problematic at best, and considering that you make rash and unfounded assumptions about people whom you know nothing about, quite risky for people taking such advice.

You are extremely quick to give people advice that can easily get a person taking that advice into serious legal trouble, as well as serious physical danger. It would be funny to read your posturing, if not for the fact that it could easily get someone arrested or even shot, regardless of whether they were legally right or wrong.

If you are in violation of any motor vehicle code, to the point where an officer pulls you over, you have reached the point where an officer not only has at least a measure of probable cause, but also he does have a reasonable expectation that you will provide legal identification, as well as the requisite paperwork for the vehicle. So an expectation that you would also show a CCW permit if you have one is not even remotely close to "unreasonable search and seizure". Regardless of how much you'd like to present that as fact, it has never been proven in court, that I am aware of.

As a former sheriff's deputy, I have worked with many state and local agencies, and most federal agencies, so I'm fairly familiar with SOP and normal department policies.

You may not like a department policy that allows or requires officers to take your weapon temporarily, but the fact that you do not like it has absolutely no bearing on anything other than your preference. What you like does not matter at all, such policies do exist, in dozens of jurisdictions. In fact, I can tell you that if you don't like having your weapon taken from you, in most jurisdictions, you would be much better off to inform the officer that you have a CCW and your weapon. Because with most agencies, the policy and SOP is to take the weapon if it is discovered, and detain the person in possession of the weapon.

It is really amusing how some people have decided that not offering a little courtesy themselves and demanding it of others has become "exercising your constitutional rights". Sad, but still amusing.

In Michigan "informing the Officer" right off of the bat is Standard.   Then you can go into the Formalities of being pulled over.   Declaring you are/aren't packing is a VERY LARGE weight off of the Officer's mind.   

For those arguing with Hilts, stop, because he is making the most sense, with common sense.   
-=Most Wanted=-

FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27070
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2010, 12:20:28 PM »
Keep it with your DL in Texas.


In Texas you can actually have a concealed handgun in your vehicle without a CCW/CHL. As long as your breaking no laws. To actually carry the handgun on your person you need a CCW/CHL.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 12:24:03 PM by Shuffler »
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline ebfd11

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4151
      • [b]POTW[/b]
Re: Question for all of you licensed concealed weapon guys.
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2010, 05:42:22 PM »
I had a job as a automobile reclamations operator, aka repoman. Part of my standard self preservation was to carry a sidearm plus back-up and wear protective vest. When I would go to the local police departments I would declare why I was there and also I would inform them of the weapons I had.

Whenever I got stopped by.a local police officer I would keep my hands on the steering wheel and dome light on. I would tell him I was carrying concealed and I had a permit to do so. Usually what happened is I would get outta the car and and be frisked down.and lose my weapons for a little bit while he checked me out.

The only problem I ever really ran in to was crossing the state lines. My procedure was to stop at the 1st state police department, and get a temporary permit from that state and do my job.

But the best thing to do when carring concealed is to don't do anything stupid. Use the better part of discretion and remember that police officer is also a father,brother, and a son.
PIGS ON THE WING 3RD WING

InGame id: LawnDart
RIP Skullman Potzie and BentNail