Did I HO Limbo0?

[E25280]

How much closer would he have to get for you to hold guns?  Even if he avoided the ram by 5 yds, the entire top section of Limbo's aircraft would have flown in front of Loathing's guns.  Would you still fire?  If that is the case, it seems to me the only way to deter some from taking that shot is to intentionally ram the aircraft on top.  Otherwise there's no such thing as a HO in this setup.

Does there need to be a such thing as a HO in this setup?   

From the screenshots, looks like limbo was beaten fair and square.

[grizz441]

Does there need to be a such thing as a HO in this setup?  

From the screenshots, looks like limbo was beaten fair and square.

Well, after logging over 2,000 duels in the last year and a half and seeing this situation from both sides more times than I can count, it's possible I am analyzing this from a different perspective than you.  

My point was, the only time it is truly a HO is when one aircraft rams through the other one.  Otherwise, there is always a thin gun solution.

[humble]

I'd take that shot every day and twice on Sunday in a duel. As far as I'm concerned Limbo had zero % chance of getting guns on. Further he's defensive the entire fight (as shown) and his counter is about a C- in my opinion. From my perspective here is the issue at hand. He's in an inferior position and he got there off of an even merge I'm assuming. Then he basically sets up a vertical reverse where the best he can do is get close to even. If the shot is passed on then the filmer surrendered a position of strength that he earned because the other guy got lame and tried to manufacture a free pass. This entirely different then a situation where your nose to nose on a remerge. I'd rather have seen it from the merge but from whats there he got position flew reasonable lag and waited for limbo to make a mistake which he did. If loathing was further along on his E management thats a pure canopy shot...he was a tad late off the gas and didn't scrub any E with rudder but thats just poor flying by the other guy.

[infowars]

Especially during a scissors with a good stick...  That's more that fair.

[WMLute]

well, i was

there is a BIT more to this story that you are leaving out...

yes you were probably kicked.

no it had nothing to do with a head on.

[dhart]

Dont feel bad, I did the same thing to AnglEyes. He was on the deck in a turn and I came down from above in a lead turn. He saw me and turned into me but I shot his canopy to his tail and he cried HO.

[Lazerr]

I would post the films of him running, whining, and getting owned all in one sorite, just tonight actually.  Its just easier to type this. 

[uptown]

It's good to know most don't consider that a ho shot before the tourney begins. I've been passing those shots up because it's a bit too questionable imo. The shooter seemed to be hesitant at first, which is why Lambo got nailed in the rear of his plane. A split second earlier on the trigger and it of been a solid front shot.
I advanced to the 2nd round in the last tournament on a shot just like that. My opponent called it all good, though he did say he was surprised i took the shot. Yeah i won, but didn't feel real good about it either.

                                                                                                                 Just my 2% of a buck

[humble]

Everyone is going to have an opinion but from my perspective it's all about the ACM and the 3/9 line. The entire premise behind dueling etiquette is to remove the crap shoot. The primary focus of the "no face shot" rule is to remove the jousting element. This occurs primarily at the "re-merge" but continues as long as the combatants are approaching each other nose to nose. Once a player has gained the 3/9 line then (IMO) he's got some established right of way. If the fight progresses such that the defensive player gains separation for a reset or pulls a reverse the circumstances change accordingly.

Looking at the film a few things are clear to me (others may view it differently). The biggest is that Loathing has clearly gained the 3/9 line and is maintaining decent lag pursuit. So while what might be a closer call on some type of a re-merge simply isn't to me. My believe is that since Limbo let the fight stabilize this way he's got to either work an extension or a reverse. My thoughts here are grounded in my experience fencing in college, you have to respect your opponents right of way and defend before you attack. So if this sequence is earlier in the fight and limbo is defending is his 3/9 line then maybe I feel differently...once he cedes that then he has to respect any guns solution he gives during his counter.

Looking at the move itself I see a number of issues. At roughly 45 seconds limbo has a couple of choices. He can set up a rolling scissors or he can actually extend I think. Instead he looks to reverse in the vertical and is carrying way to much speed to get around. His best case is HO and he isn't really even close to that. He's totally in plane and makes to effort no get skinny or set up a rolling scissor here either. Could Loathing have responded better/faster/differently sure but the fact is that he had established an offensive position as it relates to the 3/9 line. Limbo has to be prepared to defend any guns solution he gives in forcing Loathing back in front of the 3/9 line. Further whats the result if Loathing passes or "evades". If he see's an impending "HO" and pulls up and off I 100% guarantee Limbo shoots him or falls in trail and then shoots him. If he pulls thru then he gives up his 3/9 line and places himself on the defensive while passing on an easy in plane shot.

Limbo had every chance there to pull a nice reverse if he gets out of plane and "skinny", he just flew a sloppy defense and got waxed...

[Mighty01]

You are right. Obviously I'm not a new guy fresh off my two weeks, but reading deep into my name wouldn't be accurate, it's just one that I've used in other games. Just looking for a fresh start and a different perspective.

Loathing

Sorry I was razzin you Loathing. It appears you are turning over a new leaf and I applaud your efforts. Wish you the best, you appear to have the skill and determination to give some folks a good intense dogfight, just keep at it and you'll rise to the cream of the crop 

[Masherbrum]

I took Limbo0 to the DA.   His idea of a "merge" then, was coming in at 9 O'clock.   I went back into the LW arena at this point.

Going on his track record alone, it wasn't a HO and I'm pretty confident that I do not have to watch the film.  

[Vertex61]

No HO. Very nice shot

 

[dedalos]

I dueled limbo0 yesterday and we did a best 2/3, which ended with me taking the following shot. According to him it was a blatant ho and he was even in the process of pushing his nose down so I wouldn't ram him. He said he didn't mind if the film was posted, and I told him I would apologize if some of you guys who duel think it was a HO on my part.


Film: http://www.mediafire.com/?ftihbhxn4ty



Loathing

Looks like the shot I die mostly to in the DA.  It looks fine from your end but close enough that in his FE may look a lot different.  My advice is don't take these shots in a friendly duel because of that reason.  If not a friendly duel then . . . .  Just keep in mind that in the other guys FE that could have easily looked like a HO

[dedalos]

Well, after logging over 2,000 duels in the last year and a half and seeing this situation from both sides more times than I can count, it's possible I am analyzing this from a different perspective than you.  

My point was, the only time it is truly a HO is when one aircraft rams through the other one.  Otherwise, there is always a thin gun solution.

Yes, we know     I tried it on someone the other day and he called me a Grizz lol

[Shuffler]

Bahh dueling bombers