Author Topic: Wich Spit IX do we have  (Read 1360 times)

Offline funkedup

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9466
      • http://www.raf303.org/
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2001, 03:58:00 AM »
PS Let's all remember that one set of test data does not determine reality.  There is a lot of variation in test data.  A few mph variation here or there doesn't mean a model is invalid.  For instance compare the BF274 figures to the AB505 figures which are here:  http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html
Aircraft is the same spec but the results are different.  This is typical for all the WWII aircraft for which I have seen multiple sets of flight test data.  If I ever see two that agree exactly, I'll have a heart attack.

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Offline Robert

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 247
      • http://home.midsouth.rr.com/rwysairwar/
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2001, 04:09:00 AM »
I made up some charts for the spit IX's climb and speed. Here is the link http://rwy0.tripod.com/ahfilms/spitix.html  .
You can also reach this page from my home page.  http://home.midsouth.rr.com/rwysairwar/

RWY

Offline juzz

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 193
      • http://nope.haha.com
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2001, 06:38:00 AM »
If you skip the PEC and Comp. adjustments and go straight to the density adjustment, you get 421 mph at 27400 feet. I'm not sure if that means anything, too sleepy right now.

I don't see any point in doing that? Obviously by skipping the corrections, the TAS produced will be false. 421mph@27.4k is about 10mph faster than the AH Spitfire F.IX(@+18lbs) anyway.

PS Let's all remember that one set of test data does not determine reality....

Uhm, didn't you notice that I have been using both AB505 and BF274 in my comparisons? I have no other data available unfortunately.

Offline funkedup

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9466
      • http://www.raf303.org/
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2001, 07:30:00 PM »
To be honest I didn't read the whole thread and I used first person plural (let's i.e. let us) so I wasn't pointing fingers with the comment about data sets.  

It's interesting that if somebody finds a 10 mph variation between a set of flight test data and the game, there's a witch hunt on these forums.  But 10 mph out of 400 mph is only 2.5% error.  Most engineers would be overjoyed if their mathematical models could achieve that kind of accuracy when trying to match a 50-year old test of a system for which they have very limited and conflicting sources of data.   :)

About PEC and Comp.:  
Back a few versions ago there were claims of 420 mph in the Spit IX and some statements from Pyro that instrument error was modeled in the game.  I haven't had a chance to do any testing (haven't played AH for at least a month) so I have no idea what the current performance is like.  But if anybody is getting a 420 mph reading then it could be explained by the historical instrument error in BF274.

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Offline juzz

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 193
      • http://nope.haha.com
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2001, 11:55:00 PM »
http://www.geocities.com/qwejibo2000/spit9spd.gif  

See? AH @ +16lbs = AB505 @ +15lbs. BF274 is also equal below 15k but a bit slower in FS gear, with a lower FTH in both gears.

  http://www.geocities.com/qwejibo2000/spit9clm.gif  

?! AH Spitfire F.IX requires +18lbs to match BF274 at +15lbs.

PS: if you can't get the pics, blame geocities, not me!  ;)

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: juzz ]

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2001, 03:07:00 PM »
Juzz, I can't get to the charts but I'll take your word for it. The AH Spit may be designed to match a real F IX at 16lb voost, but at 18lb it is barely faster, and often matches the correct speed of an F IX. If Funked is right and errors are modelled in the guages, then even 18lb boostwould be too slow.
Regardless, 18lb boost is too slow to be a real Spit IX on 18lb boost.
I just did some more climb tests. Max internal fuel, clean, 20mm and 303s, wep, time measured from rotate.
Alt AH F IX
2k  44 30
5K 1.33 1.24
10k 2.55 2.42
15k 4.18 4.00
18k 5.15 5.0
20k 6.01 5.36
23k 7.09 6.36
28k 9.23 8.24
30k 10.28 9.12
33k 12.39 10.42

The time to 2k is very different, probably because of the way I took off. Between 2k and k the AH Spit climbs too well, but from then on it is way behind even the F IX, the first and worst of all Spit IX variants.

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2001, 03:23:00 PM »
Just to show what a 1943 Spit would be like, AH Spit v Spit IX LF
Alt AH LF IX
2k 0.44 0.27
4k 1.17 0.51
6k 1.49 1.18
7k 2.06 1.30
8k 2.23 1.42
10k 2.55 2.09
12k 3.28 2.39
14k 4.00 3.09
16k 4.36 3.42
18k 5.15 4.12
20k 6.01 4.45
22k 6.48 5.21
24k 7.35 5.57
26k 8.26 6.42
28k 9.23 7.30
30k 10.28 8.24
32k 11.50 9.24
34k 13.33 10.36

All times mins.secs

Offline garrido

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 85
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2001, 06:48:00 AM »
TRANSLATE PLEASE:

Se pierden en datos, si mas o menos libras de empuje, si se necesita esta u otra version de este o de otro avion, pero no se dan cuenta de los siguiente (a mi modo de ver, y no quiero ofender a nadie):

Nadie en la 2ŞWW podia estar tanto tiempo volando en blackout como los pilotos de Spitfire o N1K-J2 sin perder el conocimiento, el control del avión o la fuerza corporal para manejarlo sin problemas, por lo que se, un blackout podia ser mortal en combate, esos giros tan cerrados se hacian a baja velocidad y sin llegar a 6 G's, en AH se usa a menudoy no pasa nada, modelen el cansancio fisico.
Se piden aviones que participaron en muy escaso numero (o no lo hicieron) para la arena (P-51H, Ta152 H1, Fiat G56, etc), y sin embargo se reusan los que si lo hicieron (ME 262, MIG 1/3, BF 109 E4/7, Spitfire I/II, P40 B/E, y otros muchos).
Piden que el Spitfire tenga este u otro motor, use este nivel de octanaje en el fuel o este otro, pero realmente creen que todos los Spitfires usaron fuel de 150 de octanaje? Seamos serios, solo en pruebas, al igual que otros aviones. Si queremos un Spitfire para baja cota, media o alta que se modelen por separado y con sus cualidades y defectos, y que cada uno use el modelo segun su forma de volar, pero que no se haga una media de sus caracteriticas.
Les puedo asegurar que cada uno tiene datos de rendimientos distintos para cada avion, en unos pone una cosa, y en otros otra, yo mismo, tengo uno donde dice BF109  G2 velocidad max 623 Km/h y otro que pone 650 Km/h (datos de la fuerza aerea finlandesa) a que no atenemos?.
Modelar este juego a gusto de todos es imposible, pero tambien es cierto que si bien se deben seguir los datos mas fiable tambien lo es que hay aviones por debajo de sus posibilidades reales y otros por encima (ejemplo: ni el Spitfire ni el N1K,a mi modo de ver, pierden la suficiente E y la recuperan demasiado deprisa para el tipo de virajes que hacen)

Los iconos son un factor fundamental en este tipo de arena, deberian ser suprimidos para distancias inferiores a 700y o bien crear una arana historica.

Es anacronica la arena de AH, RPS es muy necesario.

Un saludo

Supongo
  ;)

Offline garrido

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 85
Wich Spit IX do we have
« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2001, 10:18:00 AM »
ERROR sorry
BF 109 G2 NO, Datos del 109 G6

Saludos
Supongo  :D