Which is a better plane?

[thorsim]

I believe Rall said that the 190 was superior but the 109 "fit like a glove"  and it would easily do whatever he wanted it to. Probably a popular sentiment.

people tend to prefer what they are used to ...

i mean some people still prefer The Windows OS ...   

[thorsim]

A8 is like a suburban of a fighter, It goes around pretty stable, cant turn, but holds alot of what it carries

hey common at least give me the H1 ...

[jdbecks]

I prefer flying the 190..I find it a far better attack plane, however... when caught slow, you have far less defensive moves than the 109. when flying solo, I like to fly the k4..when I am with my squad...Lady D will always come out for a play

[Saurdaukar]

I believe Rall said that the 190 was superior but the 109 "fit like a glove"  and it would easily do whatever he wanted it to. Probably a popular sentiment.

Rall's comments on the 109 v. 190 can be viewed on You Tube with a simple search like "Rall 109."

I always loved his interviews - such vigor.  "Zee von ninety voz a rugged aircravt!  It had vour veapons around zee engine!" 

[Ghosth]

Better for what?

Planes are a bit like tools, don't use a screwdriver to try to pound in nails.
Don't use a hammer to try to drive in a screw.

Now granted its not quite that cut and dried, esp with the LW birds.

190's, esp the dora, run and gun. Long straight passes through the furball.

109s play more of a vertical game, use their great climb to rope the enemy.

Each has advantages and limitations. The key is to learn them all at least well enough to
be able to use your bird to its strengths, and force the other guy to fight at his weaknesses.
Which I know is a whole lot easier said than done.

[LLogann]

The 190's are clearly better.........  At receiving radiator damage........ And rolling

The 109's are clearly better......... At losing a wing.......... And climbing (in general)

Bottom line, WHO is flying the birds?  That is the only factor that matters. 

"2 weeker" in a 152 vs. m00t in a 152, I'll take m00t's 152 at being better then 2 weeker's..

[Oldman731]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are new the game (my apologies if that is incorrect).  Between the two planes I would say that the 190's (especially the D9) would offer a shorter path to initial success, while at the same time offering less options for ACM to the newer player.  The 190's are more stable than the 109's and have a gun package that IMHO is easier to hit with and are fast enough to help keep you out of the tower.  Outside of the 400mph boom and zoom/run gameplan however they will be harder to have success with for the newer player.  Easier, but more limited. 

I think the 109's are a little different, the earlier models, 109F, 109G2, are easier to handle, than the 109K, and are more nimble as well but slower.  The K has enormous power up front that can be a little tricky to handle at first and the 30mm will test your aiming for awhile.  If you get over initial troubles I think the 109's are more capable fighters in general than the 190's. 

I agree with all of this.  Note that there's a huge difference between the FW190A models and the FW190D, with the Dora being much easier to fly well.  Even so, if you're taking a long-term approach, you probably should be working on mastering the 109s.

- oldman

[Nemisis]

Not an expert in any of these planes, but this always does good for me:

If he's talking air to air, then for 109s: G14 for starters, and as your gunnery imporves, the K4. Get in to about D300, or even D200 if possible, to use the 30mm cannon, as the balistics are just terrible. Use a light trigger finger as the 30mm ammo goes fast, an 2 .50's aren't going to knock anything down in a hurry. 50% fuel and DT's are good, and use only the 20mm in the G14, and leave the gondolas and rockets in the hanger.

Your in the wrong plane if your looking for a ground attack, its a one shot deal.

For 190's: A5 to start with as (IMO) it is the best starter plane out of the 190 set. The A8 just seems to wallow in a fight, and since newbs seem to wana turn, your going to be trying to tighten a bolt with a saw as far as the "a plane is a tool to use" issue goes. 50% fuel with the 190's always seems good to me, and as for the gun options, take the 4 gun option, but RTB every kill if you spray and pray, as 90 rpg goes fast. Oherwise head back when you see a sudden drop in the bullets your putting out.

For ground attack, I'd take either the F8, as its the best of the series, or the A8 as you have the options to take 4 20mm's, or 2 20mm's and 2 30mm's. Great for strafing, but ordanace is more limited.

Just general advice, keep the fuel loads light, I take 50% at the most unless I know its going to be a long flight. And get in close, D500-D300 is best.

[Ruah]

It has been my experience that utilizing the great rolling nature of the 190 is difficult but if you feel you are good in scissors - then the 190D has a lot of potential even outside the BnZ style its usually used in.   The 109, since its so strong in the vertical, is actually slightly easier for newer pilots (like myself) because fighting in the vertical is much easier to imagine then in a roll.  Its easier to keep your eye on the target, its easier to predict when planes will start stalling and falling out of the sky.  So I find ACM to be esaier in the small, relativly light 109 then the 190. 

I agree with the previous poster - if you are in a squad, the 190 really shows its strengths (lots of ammo, great high speed control, great views) but in a situation where you are alone or outnumbered I would rather be in a 109.

[Delirium]

In a scenario/FSO type environment, I'd rather fly the 190 over the 109. Most of the time in scenarios/FSOs speed and firepower dictates the fight and not maneuverability, since no one really flies the aircraft to the very edge anyway.

Not to mention, the 109's ammo load isn't very friendly when there is a lot of lag present, which particularly occurs in the SEA. In a completely defensive situation I would much rather fly the 109, in fact in many ways the late model 109s are superior to my P38.

[Saurdaukar]

G14 for starters, and as your gunnery imporves, the K4.

I would contend that, if he's asking because he's new, he should start with the F4, then work his way up.

You need to figure that for even the most "instinctual" pile-it, flat, sustained turns will be the order of the day for the first couple months, at least.  The F is really the only 109 that has this advantage over the usual LWMA suspects; most of which are inexperienced enough to get themselves into such a situation with said aircraft.

[Nemisis]

That is a good point, I hadn't thought of that. But if he isn't new, the best plane to start with is undoutably the G14 or possibly the G2.

[Hajo]

According to what I've read ( how much is enough?) concensus has it the allied Pilots thought the 190 was more dangerous then the 109.

Even the 109 Pilots when they received the G Models weren't very happy with them.  They had to use higher throttle settings and did not

have the handling of the F models.  A bit more of a chore to fly.

Always remember....we are playing a game here.  We have throttle settings to the wall most of the time in level flight.  So engine temperature

is of no concern to us.  Plus in many cases after using WEP until it was expended the engines performance was degraded.  One limped home

with a less then stellar performing powerplant.  WEP is not expended in game, it regenerates with cooler engine temperatures and can be used

again.  So the difference in game and in WW2 combat is huge.  We are comparing apples to oranges.  Depending on hours even using WEP and

not expending it, at return to base the engine might need major work or a complete change.  No such consequences occur in our cartoon world

[BnZs]

Always remember....we are playing a game here.  We have throttle settings to the wall most of the time in level flight.  So engine temperature

is of no concern to us.

Uh, actually we *don't* fly with balls-to-the-wall most of the time. Because balls to the walls on our HOTAS doesn't actually give us balls to the wall power. For that you have to hit the WEP button.

 Plus in many cases after using WEP until it was expended the engines performance was degraded.  One limped home

with a less then stellar performing powerplant.  WEP is not expended in game, it regenerates with cooler engine temperatures and can be used

again.  So the difference in game and in WW2 combat is huge.  We are comparing apples to oranges.  Depending on hours even using WEP and

not expending it, at return to base the engine might need major work or a complete change.  No such consequences occur in our cartoon world

Given the history of many engines being pushed far beyond book limitations without failure, I'd actually say that AHII's "book limitation" method if anything forces us into using more conservative power settings than combat pilots often actually used.

[pervert]

190s I don't really rate unless its the 190D not that the rest wouldn't be good against planes of the same period, but in the MA you can't dictate the terms of the fight in a 190 with a slower model the other models simply don't pack enough speed to recover from manoeuvring especially evasives and after a few you basically wont have the e to aviod the next one. This is the same reason I rate the K4 for the MA.

You can still mix it up with a Dora (to a lesser exent) or a K4 he biggest difference I'd have to say is the guns, the Dora's being more accurate which is better would probably come down to personal choice or fighting style in the end.