Which is a better plane?

[Nemisis]

Pervert, I've fought 38Ls (same as Js in performance, so thats point that kills your argument. The 38L just had dive flaps.), La-7's, 190D's and spit 16's to standstills in a 190A5. I'm fairly succesfull in C.205's, and FM2's all against LW planes. I've seen people destroy a 4-hog with ease in a 190A8. The issue isn't with the plane, its with the pilot. The 190D can't turn, but its faster, the 190A5 can turn better, but it can't run as fast. Its a trade off of one thing for another.

[Boozeman]

190s I don't really rate unless its the 190D not that the rest wouldn't be good against planes of the same period, but in the MA you can't dictate the terms of the fight in a 190 with a slower model the other models simply don't pack enough speed to recover from manoeuvring especially evasives and after a few you basically wont have the e to aviod the next one. This is the same reason I rate the K4 for the MA.

Judging by this statement, you rate the 190s on the basis of flying them like a K4. In that case, it's no surprise you underestimate them. 190s are very capable, you need to stick to their preferred flight envelope, which is very different from that of the 109s.   

[Nemisis]

I think what he's saying is that the k4 has the power to recover from manuvring, same as the D9 does. But that older variants (109's too? Not sure about that from his post.) lack the engine power to generate speed to rundown opponents, and to recover from manuvering.

But just the fact that the P-38L, wich is just a J with manuvering dive recovery flaps, can compete in the LWA's means that his argument about planes from one period only being good against those of the same, or an earlier period holds no water.

[pervert]

But just the fact that the P-38L, wich is just a J with manuvering dive recovery flaps, can compete in the LWA's means that his argument about planes from one period only being good against those of the same, or an earlier period holds no water.

I think Murdr said it best the 38 is a jack of all trades a good all rounder, the 190 series is not comparable to the 38, and not least for the fact they have a hardcore of exceptional sticks flying them.

Judging by this statement, you rate the 190s on the basis of flying them like a K4. In that case, it's no surprise you underestimate them. 190s are very capable, you need to stick to their preferred flight envelope, which is very different from that of the 109s.   

Heres a clip that illustrates my point from 2 nights ago I could do the same in an A5 in this situation but I know for a fact I wouldn't have the power to stay out of guns. And just to prove beyond doubt that you don't need to turn fantastically to reverse a disadvantage the last plane takes one of my elevators using the engines power I'm still able to get out of guns and reverse his advantage in short pure turning isn't the only way to fight.

Oh and btw Boozeman any K4 sticks will see a lot of familiar moves in here.

http://www.4shared.com/file/215950245/9cec9cf2/doradeck.html

[Nemisis]

You can't compare 38's to 190's in anything specific, but you can compare them overall. Its the same way people say the 4 hog is the best plane in the game. Its worse in some areas than others, and better in another area.

The fact is that the 190A5 CAN be competitive in the LW arenas. A lot of people think it isn't that great of a plane, but I personaly think it feels the lightest and easiest to fly of all the 190 series, 152 included.

About all you loose in the A5 over the D9 is the ability to rundown the faster planes, and a bit of the 190D's verticle manuvering. Past that, I feel that it preforms just as well in the other areas.

[pervert]

Nemesis I'm not talking about speed to rundown people, I'm talking about the fact all 190s need to be going fast to turn well for evasives 'see video' and the Dora can get back up to speed for the next attack better than the other 190s. Thats not my opinion thats a hard cold fact.

[Boozeman]

Heres a clip that illustrates my point from 2 nights ago I could do the same in an A5 in this situation but I know for a fact I wouldn't have the power to stay out of guns. And just to prove beyond doubt that you don't need to turn fantastically to reverse a disadvantage the last plane takes one of my elevators using the engines power I'm still able to get out of guns and reverse his advantage in short pure turning isn't the only way to fight.

Oh and btw Boozeman any K4 sticks will see a lot of familiar moves in here.

http://www.4shared.com/file/215950245/9cec9cf2/doradeck.html

First off, very nice 190 flying Pervert! I really enjoyed the clip. But I have to say that it was not the engine power that kept you out of gun range - you never got really fast in that fights, most of them were rather slow, with lot of vertical maneuvering. I'm sure if you had been in an A5, the results would have been similar. 

[pervert]

First off, very nice 190 flying Pervert! I really enjoyed the clip. But I have to say that it was not the engine power that kept you out of gun range - you never got really fast in that fights, most of them were rather slow, with lot of vertical maneuvering. I'm sure if you had been in an A5, the results would have been similar. 

When I talk about fast turns, around 250 -300 + is where I'm looking to make my turns (usually at least 300) there even with one elevator missing I have to be fast to turn to set up the overshoot/merge this is the same as a co -alt 1v1 the more speed you can pack on the better you can turn for longer. I could make the same kinds of overshoots with a k4 with a lot less speed maybe as much as 150 mph + difference.

Looking at the film as I start my initial turns,
Against the p38 - 350 mph
Against the p51 – 300 mph
Against the Spit14 at the merge I’m still too slow 257 mph I roll and spilt S to get some speed back to 300 mph as I loop up
The pony who tags my elevator I'm only 270 mph and can't get turned quick enough

Not that I need to after a lot of my own testing but if you want hard figures do a comparison of these 2 planes at the Gonzoville fighter comparison site or all the 190s, the A5 gets to the magic 300 a whopping 8 seconds later than the Dora in acceleration.

In terms of air combat that’s a lifetime, imagine in that film of mine that I needed an extra 8 seconds or even 3 or 4 I’d be dead. Sadly in the MA this is what happens a lot in the A5 .

So far as power goes I’m sorry but the A5 cannot hang like the Dora thats a fact.

[Nemisis]

It can't go in the vertical as long, but your playing the wrong game with the A5. She can supprise a lot of people with her turn rate. Won't necessarily turn with a spit, but shes not terrible either. Not saying you should fly the A5 like a turn-fighter, but don't be afraid to pull some turns. Try reversing your turns halfway through. When your opponent is about to draw a bead on you, flip around and start turning the other way. Really pisses me off when I'm on the other end of it.

If your set of skills is tailored to being the fastest, or having the best zoom climb or anything like that, your looking for a different aircraft IMO. The A5 offers a good combination of a lot of good aspects.

[jdbecks]

The A5, maybe the best turner out of the 190 family, however, it is still below average amongst most of the other LW planes. You should always be using the vertical... I would rather take the acceleration and speed of lady D over the A5 every single time.

[pervert]

It can't go in the vertical as long, but your playing the wrong game with the A5. She can supprise a lot of people with her turn rate. Won't necessarily turn with a spit, but shes not terrible either. Not saying you should fly the A5 like a turn-fighter, but don't be afraid to pull some turns. Try reversing your turns halfway through. When your opponent is about to draw a bead on you, flip around and start turning the other way. Really pisses me off when I'm on the other end of it.

If your set of skills is tailored to being the fastest, or having the best zoom climb or anything like that, your looking for a different aircraft IMO. The A5 offers a good combination of a lot of good aspects.

Sorry Nemisis but if theres someone behind me in a spit and I'm in an A5, I'd rather not take the chance of it being some n00b who will be 'surprised' by me turning, or flipping the other way when hes about to shoot. Even if you were in a spit doing this any half decent player wouldn't fall for such tactics and so you are relying on sheer luck to win a fight this way in any plane let alone one that turns and sheds E as badly as an A5.

[thorsim]

i usually try to go for the quickness advantage or high speed handling advantage of the 190s ...

both seem a bit underrepresented from the accounts i've read, but at least there there ...

funny things about the FWs is with the models represented and how, one would get the impression that ...

1) the 190As got worse as they were improved ...

2) that the dora turned worse than the 190As, which is the opposite of observations of the testers and operating pilots.

go figure ...

[Nemisis]

Still would rather take my 190A5 over the D9. And I'm not relying on luck. I'm relying on the fuselage of their pland blocking them from seeing where I went. After that split S, I usually go into the verticle and flip around at the top to make a pass.

[pervert]

After that split S, I usually go into the verticle and flip around at the top to make a pass.

It can't go in the vertical as long, but your playing the wrong game with the A5. She can supprise a lot of people with her turn rate.

Not saying you should fly the A5 like a turn-fighter, but don't be afraid to pull some turns. Try reversing your turns halfway through. When your opponent is about to draw a bead on you, flip around and start turning the other way.

Man theres so many contradictions there my head is hurting trying to figure out what your doing 

I think to sum it up you just prefare the A5 to the Dora fair enough each to their own

[RASTER]

Having read your original post ketinkrad it was the designers belief that the 190 would replace the 109 and mostly this should seem obvious to you without asking. Leads me to wonder if the orginal post was some form of trolling. If asking such a question one should put in the word....which is better FOR...