"Dueling" help...

[humble]

Figure as long as I'm doing it I need to brush up a bit (or a lot) on stuff. I simply don't ever really do much of the on the deck dueling. Outside of gunnery issues which are probably not all that correctable I keep seeing the same couple of things. However I know from my own outdated time as a trainer that the root cause of what we "see" is often either elsewhere or is really the by product of a misconception that channels you to the unwanted and often repeated outcome. Now given that my problems are all vs very top end sticks it's certainly not all conceptual. But no question that I need to refine a few things since what i'm seeing isn't compatable with what I'm getting if you know what I mean...

As a general rule just flying over Fri-Sun but certainly can make time whenever convenient.

[Soulyss]

Not a trainer, or even that good at dueling but happy to have a few 1v1's with ya if you see me online.  I've actually been trying to work on my 1v1's/dueling lately as well.

I know what you mean, I often see something that doesn't match what my expectations are in my mind which is usually the result of some lack of understanding or incorrect reasoning.  Maybe we could both learn something.

[humble]

happy to hook up anytime. Was hanging in the DA over the weekend but wasn't alot going on. Basically was flying a some middling planes "my way" which quickly leads me to basic issues vs top sticks. About 10-15% plane matchup and some measure of gunnery in the sense that most high end duelers dont miss much (in Grizz's case at all) but 60%? or so is fundamentally E vs angles related in the vertical. I've got a pretty good idea of a few things I can change that "might" help...but its more if this gets you killed all the time then try that vs a sound conceptual understanding.

[JunkyII]

So you went against Grizz over the weekend?( I think I read right ) Dont be predictable especially with sticks like him. You need to be random with different types of merges not always doing the normal immelmen merge. Also use a bunch of different rides(not your normal) If you fly hogs fly 109s, fly 109s fly hogs...completely different fighting styles in those rides. The more you know about how good sticks fly a certain ride the more your gunna win.


 

[humble]

Not Grizz specific at all. No question he's a tough tough nut to crack but there are 25-30 guys that easily come to mind. To be honest I wasn't flying to "win" as much as I was flying to establish my own current level. Stuck with a ki-61 and then la-5...both good planes but not uber. I can certainly go thru and post a few clips but its not what the other guy is doing as much as what I'm doing/not doing. Obviously as I change so will the other guys reaction. But the 1st step in refining my own understanding of cause and effect...

[FLS]

If I see you in there I'll join you. I enjoy 1v1. I don't usually duel but I expect it will be fun.

[humble]

I'm always up for a 1 on 1 and always have been. That being said this is a reverse in that 90% of the time I'm the one being asked for help. Grizz, Mazz, Skyrock or any of the top "duelers" are all more then willing to share info and opinion...all you need to do is ask. The flip side is that it's not always easy to step into the other guys mindset and define what he "see's" and then work to troubleshoot it. Part of the issue is me in the sense I've never put a priority on "dueling". I'm much more comfortable in a less defined environment where every disadvantage has a corresponding advantage. So where I see opportunity there isn't and where I see disadvantage there is opportunity. Things are both more straight forward yet more obscured since the "even" start creates a different set of issues. This is simply the 1st time I've ever really looked at dueling beyond teaching it to an intermediate level....there is a whole lot of rare air beyond that I haven't really bothered with....till now.

[Soulyss]

I'm always up for a 1 on 1 and always have been. That being said this is a reverse in that 90% of the time I'm the one being asked for help. Grizz, Mazz, Skyrock or any of the top "duelers" are all more then willing to share info and opinion...all you need to do is ask. The flip side is that it's not always easy to step into the other guys mindset and define what he "see's" and then work to troubleshoot it. Part of the issue is me in the sense I've never put a priority on "dueling". I'm much more comfortable in a less defined environment where every disadvantage has a corresponding advantage. So where I see opportunity there isn't and where I see disadvantage there is opportunity. Things are both more straight forward yet more obscured since the "even" start creates a different set of issues. This is simply the 1st time I've ever really looked at dueling beyond teaching it to an intermediate level....there is a whole lot of rare air beyond that I haven't really bothered with....till now.

Minus the teaching part that all sounds eerily familiar.  I generally feel that I win more of the 1v1's I get into in the MA's than I lose but in most cases there are starting parameters that dictate  what happens at the merge and give me something to work with and try to exploit to gain advantage.  A neutral, co-E merge is a rarity and frankly something I don't handle very well at all.  It's also something I find myself really interested in working on lately. 

[JunkyII]

Minus the teaching part that all sounds eerily familiar.  I generally feel that I win more of the 1v1's I get into in the MA's than I lose but in most cases there are starting parameters that dictate  what happens at the merge and give me something to work with and try to exploit to gain advantage.  A neutral, co-E merge is a rarity and frankly something I don't handle very well at all.  It's also something I find myself really interested in working on lately. 

Im just wondering.....Do you like being on the E- side of the fight at all in the MA? Personally I feel Im better with E- then E same situations.
 

[humble]

It's a function of manufacturing an advantage vs recognizing one. I'm probably one of the "better" duelers in the game in the sense that I handle the plane well and understand ACM. So vs a large % I can fly "read and react" or fly an E or angles opener and win. But vs that very top end group they can easily fly a read and react and not only neutralize my opener but manufacture an advantage. In effect I fly with the idea that I'll capitalize on the other guys mistake and they fly with the thought that they'll force one. I get a similiar result in terms of positional "cause and effect" vs most of that grouping so its more a function of what I'm doing. In effect I'm flying in a way the prompts similar reactions across a grouping of sticks...so its more me then them

[Soulyss]

Im just wondering.....Do you like being on the E- side of the fight at all in the MA? Personally I feel Im better with E- then E same situations.
 

I think I'm pretty indifferent in that regard.  I'm certainly comfortable being at an E deficit to begin the fight, the only negative to that position IMHO is that in order to shoot the other guy down you need his/her cooperation to a certain extent.  If I begin in an advantageous position I have more control over the fight and can dicate events to a greater degree.  


*edit*

I should also add that since I generally take off and climb in a straight line towards the enemy field because I lack the patience to circle climb over my own field and lately I've been flying the 38G it's rare for me to get above 8k or so which means that more often than not lately I seem to be looking up at the bad guys, so I'd say I get more practice fighting from that position than the alternative (at least in LW, in the less populated MW you can go further before running into someone and it's probably closer to 50-50).

[JunkyII]

Something I noticed from doing alot of duels the last 3-4 months is that the top sticks all fly alot alike as far as being 1v1. Some are better in a flat turn fight, some are better at a rolling scissors fight.....and thats what they try to go for in a fight. Me I was better at rolling scissors but got owned by vertical scissors until I found out what to do when going vertical, now I try to mix vertical/rolling scissors into the same fight(its hard to explain). Maybe the fight you try to get it too is possibly easier to counter?  

[Big Rat]

Humble,

You know where I'm at, normally there around 9:00 central.  Just hit me up with a PM first to make sure I'm not helping someone else.

 
BigRat

[humble]

will do...

[boomerlu]

Not an expert, but my attitude towards dueling is that it's far more a psychological/strategic battle than an ACM one so long as no pilot is too far above the other in ACM understanding.

More important is predicting your opponent's move, or perhaps baiting them into a certain move that you can exploit. From my experience in the last dueling bracket, the advantages I generated in my duels were created mostly by flying a "no-lose" merge which brought me back to even with my opponent in the worst case and gave me a big advantage in the best case.

After that, it's just a matter of pressing home the advantage using "standard" ACM and good gunnery.

Edit: proper ACM understanding is a prerequisite to flying this way. The ACM understanding tells you what moves counter what others, what moves to fly to exploit a given situation, etc. Without the understanding, you can generate exploitable moves by your opponent but completely fail to exploit them.