bomber gun convergence

[hitech]

If you are flying 1 bomber there is not any convergence. All streams fly parallel with each other.

Convergence only plays a part with a formation. Then each planes guns are all parallel , but the planes converge at 500.

[Ghastly]

Hitech posted while I was pulling stuff together - nothing to see here....

[SWrokit]

If you are flying 1 bomber there is not any convergence. All streams fly parallel with each other.

Convergence only plays a part with a formation. Then each planes guns are all parallel , but the planes converge at 500.

Thanks hitech.

So, here's a tactic I may try with my squad.  Instead of 2 or 3 pilots upping buffs with drones.....up 5 pilots in single bombers.........hold tight formation for defense.  At 1000 to 600 all 5 bombers can bring all guns to bear on fighter(s).  From the true 6 position, at that distance, instead of 1 set of 50's you now have up to 3 sets per plane engaging fighter, times 5 buffs......we're talking about up to 30.....50's firing on a nmy fighter at one time.      (That's buffs with top, rear, and belly guns.)  No convergence, straight shooting.

Interesting concept.

<S>
Rokit

[Bronk]

My brother's gunsight works really well for level-six shots. The hash mark below center represents round drop at 1K.

You should share the raw file.

[SWrokit]

You should share the raw file.

LOL......already PM'ed him begging for a copy  

<S>
Rokit

[Ghastly]

Thanks hitech.

So, here's a tactic I may try with my squad.  Instead of 2 or 3 pilots upping buffs with drones.....up 5 pilots in single bombers.........hold tight formation for defense.  At 1000 to 600 all 5 bombers can bring all guns to bear on fighter(s).  From the true 6 position, at that distance, instead of 1 set of 50's you now have up to 3 sets per plane engaging fighter, times 5 buffs......we're talking about up to 30.....50's firing on a nmy fighter at one time.      (That's buffs with top, rear, and belly guns.)  No convergence, straight shooting.

Interesting concept.

<S>
Rokit

30 guns?  No, you wouldn't.  Unless I still misunderstand what Hitech has said, all the guns on any SINGLE bomber are going to fire in a parallel line - while same gun on the drone(s) are going to be aimed at the point 500 yds down the line where the the human gunner manning the guns for the box is firing (with all of it's guns firing parallel).  This means that 5 bombers without drones will mean at most 5 guns on the target.  If you stuck to 3 bomber pilots each with 2 drones, if the fighter is at or near 500 yds and all 3 gunners have him dialed in, he's going to get hit with 1 (gun) x 3 (planes in the box) x 3 (boxes) - or by 9 guns. And have a wall of lead all around him from the other guns, too. 

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[SWrokit]

Unsure Ghastly.

I know if you use primary weapon, it fires only the weapon you're positioned at.  When you use "Fire All" trigger, it engages all weapons that can target the plane.  Now at the same time, this is true when using drones.  However, I rarely (if ever) up a set of buffs without tag along drones.  So I'm just assuming the same holds true for a single buff.

Tis something I'm definitely going to check out this weekend.  But at the same time, how often does anyone up just 1 buff?

<S>
Rokit

[Ghastly]

Unsure Ghastly.

I know if you use primary weapon, it fires only the weapon you're positioned at.  When you use "Fire All" trigger, it engages all weapons that can target the plane.  Now at the same time, this is true when using drones.  However, I rarely (if ever) up a set of buffs without tag along drones.  So I'm just assuming the same holds true for a single buff.

Tis something I'm definitely going to check out this weekend.  But at the same time, how often does anyone up just 1 buff?

<S>
Rokit

Engages (fires) guns, yes.
Aims them, no.   

As I understand it, anyway.
<S>

[Patches1]

My convergence in an F4U is 275, and I target bombers.

Get above the bombers, match, or exceed their speed at altitude...roll in...and shoot for the cockpit when you dive in.
When do you start shooting? Well, if you've set up right...and you're above the bombers...and a bit faster than they are... start shooting at about 1K.

It works at all altitudes.

Oh!  Be patient...take your time  for the set-up.....at all altitudes.

[MORAY37]

I still laugh at effective ranges from a WW2 .50 cal at 1 kilometer, as they are in game (actually was killed at 1.5K the other day).  I guess to make a good game, you make some concessions.  <shrug>  

Historically, 200 yards was already at the far edge of the effectiveness of bomber defensive armaments.

[Lusche]

I still laugh at effective ranges from a WW2 .50 cal at 1 kilometer, as they are in game (actually was killed at 1.5K the other day).  I guess to make a good game, you make some concessions.  <shrug>  

Historically, 200 yards was already at the far edge of the effectiveness of bomber defensive armaments.

Yes and no. Well, actually more no than yes...

Yes, for of course a single WW2 gunner would have been relatively hard pressed to hit a moving target beyond 200yards. But so was the average fighter pilot. On the other hand, almost the same goes for the new to average AH player. What is getting constantly forgotten in such discussions here, is the fact that even after a few weeks, a player has massively more practice in firing his gun at "live" targets than his WW2 counterpart.

And no: The effective range for defensive guns in heavy bomber sin terms of bullet trajectory was much higher than a mere 200yds. And remember: A bullet fired rearwards has an ballistic advantage. Usually, the effective range of .50 defensive guns was considered to be ~1000yds, not 200.
That's the reason why the Luftwaffe was frantically looking for weapons being able to engage the bombers at many hundreds and even thousands of yardss, well outside of the bombers defensive fire: 37, 50 and even 75mm guns, WGR, R4M rockets and ultimately guided missiles like the X-4.

[Flayed]

You should share the raw file.

 You see how egg is?  He gives away my secrets    I also use this sight for my 50 cal armed fighters and set my convergence to max and play sniper at 1K on running planes

[hitech]

I still laugh at effective ranges from a WW2 .50 cal at 1 kilometer, as they are in game (actually was killed at 1.5K the other day).  I guess to make a good game, you make some concessions.  <shrug>  

Historically, 200 yards was already at the far edge of the effectiveness of bomber defensive armaments.

There are not any concessions made . Shooting backwards in a buff has an effective longer range do to the physics of drag.

HiTech

[MadHatter]

There are not any concessions made . Shooting backwards in a buff has an effective longer range do to the physics of drag.

HiTech

I gotta ask, HiTech are you a buff driver in game? (not being sarcastic) This is the first combat simulator that actually made flying a bomber viable (least first I played) 

[Ghastly]

I gotta ask, HiTech are you a buff driver in game? (not being sarcastic) This is the first combat simulator that actually made flying a bomber viable (least first I played) 

I'll take a poke at something here - most previous sims had some version of the dreaded "hit box", which meant the developers had to use fuzzy math to try to get things to work out, and they rarely did.  Or at least, not consistently through the entire range of aircraft matchups.

I (personally, this is just my opinion) think that the increased fidelity of the physics, coupled with a no nonsense, non automated gunner system for the bombers, makes all the difference in the world. 

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