Help with KI-61-l-Tei

[HighGTrn]

So I've been assigned this plane for tonight's FSO.  I've flown it in the past with some squadies just for fun and once in another FSO. I've spent some time trolling the forum and looking at historical information about this version of the Tony but I need more prespective from players in here about this plane.

No offense to anyone but I really just want to hear from really good sticks who have a lot of time in this plane.  Although I appreciate the comments, I think I would not be served well by a spit or other driver giving me their two cents on a plane they rarely fly.

Specifically, I'd like to know what you Tei expertens would give as advice to someone if they were flying against Corsairs, Hellcats and JugNs in an FSO.

Thanks!

S1n1ster

[potsNpans]

A good general place to read up on it if you have not already is this popular site.
http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm

[HighGTrn]

Thanks Pots, I've already checked it out.

[maddafinga]

They dive very very well and hold their e nicely.  Stay off the flaps if you can.  It turns very well slow and fast both, but it's best as a bnz type of a plane.  You can fly it like a Mustang and be very successful in it.  It's level speed is not that great but it will dive and zoom beautifully.  Drain your wing tanks first, that makes a difference.  I'm not a great stick, but the 61 is my second favorite plane, if you look I've got a thread about it some months ago, just about the same as yours.  There are guys better than me for sure, but I fly and kill in it just fine.  The slow handling is pretty excellent but I don't know how often you get slow like that in FSO, I haven't really flown in them.  Are you more likely to have alt or to work from the bottom?

[PJ_Godzilla]

So I've been assigned this plane for tonight's FSO.  I've flown it in the past with some squadies just for fun and once in another FSO. I've spent some time trolling the forum and looking at historical information about this version of the Tony but I need more prespective from players in here about this plane.

No offense to anyone but I really just want to hear from really good sticks who have a lot of time in this plane.  Although I appreciate the comments, I think I would not be served well by a spit or other driver giving me their two cents on a plane they rarely fly.

Specifically, I'd like to know what you Tei expertens would give as advice to someone if they were flying against Corsairs, Hellcats and JugNs in an FSO.

Thanks!

S1n1ster

Yeah, I fly a Spit or F-dub mostly. Let me give you my two cents worth... I think I've gotten in the seat of this beast a time or two after I noticed that it's nose looked like a 109 - probably because of the DB copy lurking under the cowl. I think I took off and augered, no enemy input required. 


Actually, I killed one last week. It was flown by "Ira Bong". He was all over a fellow knight - both low and slow - so I dove on him in my Hurri II and got a couple of lucky hits. I'm not sure if his evasive took him into the ground or my hispano's shells killed him, but, I can say that the machine turned fairly well but not as well as a HurriII sustained - though I felt his transients were a good deal quicker. That's why staying on top of him felt a bit tricky.

[SPKmes]

think of the Ki as an under powered 109....they look similar due to the fact the japanese designers were helped with the design by a german designer  Dr Richard Vogt.   They are great turners between 200-300 (Best IMO is about 250-280) and still turn well above and below this...BnZ is a good option however I find that you do lose a bit of speed and alt during each pass so you need to watch this and take the appropriate measures to ensure you keep as close to your best potential E as possible... if you lose speed you do have trouble gaining it back..likewise alt.... corsairs and jugs are reasonably easy to fight with but watch for them trying to slow you down...(not so much the jug) as this is when corsair will trump the Ki.... the F6F is another story...these are beasts and once again keeping speed and if at all possible alt is Key... the guns  are pretty good nose mounted cannons...you can't go wrong...

[Krusty]

I have to say, Soda's evaluation is just plain wrong.

With a top speed of barely over 300mph, it's never going to be a great BnZer. It's got a light ammo load, and fast firing guns, meaning you get in close for a kill.

It's a great manuvering plane. Mix it up. There are only 2 problems with this:

1) It can pull wonderful moves as long as it still has some E, but once it's below the 150mph range, it won't regain that E quickly and the manuvers will start turning to mush.

2) the great range means heavy fuel tanks in the wings... When dogfighting light (50% fuel or less) it's very light on the controls, like a tubby A6M, but if you get bounced or forced to dogfight when your tanks are closer to 75% or 100% full, you REALLY have to be careful about how hard you pull her around. Seriously, you have to be gentle on the stick and (i'll use the first example that comes to mind) fly it like a Pony. The heavy fuel leads to the onset of "mushy manuvers" at higher speeds, bleeding E all that much faster.

Both of these leave you totally at the mercy of any other cons that dive down on you when you're saddling your primary target. I've personally mixed it up low and slow with a number of US planes in a Ki61. A P-47 fight comes to mind: I was on the deck against a jug and we were both using flaps and rolling scissors, and for 5 minutes the jug's super flaps kept it alive, but in the end I got the kill. It's a lovely plane. It has killed many a spitfire because it'll turn very hard at higher speeds, bleeding the E out and thus shortening the turn and cutting in behind a target for a nice 1-burst kill. The downside: Once it's bled out all its E in manuvers like this, it can't disengage and it's on the defensive. Pull hard in turns as needed, but leave yourself a bit of an "E" reserve.

[Ghosth]

Half the battle in the KI-61 in my opinion is learning when to give it all you've got, and when to bug out.

It will turn very well, as long as it has E to spare, but once your out of it your much better off breaking off.
Extend, regain E, immelman zoom and dive back into it again.

As mentioned above it has quite good cannons with high ROF, hardest part for me is not blowing all my ammo on the first kill. Close in, very short accurate bursts are the ticket.  Because of the high ROF its wicked at deflection shots. Catch em crossing your nose and it can be all over right there.

[BnZs]

I got to play around with this abit for FSO.

It is an aerodynamically clean design. Its got long, high-aspect ratio wings. The former means it will retain E well in dives and unloaded zooms, the latter means it will also retain E better than many planes under Gs. So it will sustain a high rate of turn longer as speed is bleeding down.

The other great thing about it is that its cannons are nose-mounted and it has a P-51esque view for shooting them.

As others have pointed out, its Achille's heel is engine power. If this thing had an excellent weight/power ratio, I expect it would be very fast, climb well, and have one of the best sustained turn rates in the game. Perking good. Since it does not though, doing something like turning with a Spit is fairly easy if you go into it with energy to spare or are fighting downhill, but much more of a problem if you are low of E and are trying to beat the thing in sustained turning level or climbing.

[Masherbrum]

Don't use flaps in this plane, manipulate the throttle instead.   Take 50% fuel to 90% of the fights and burn the wing tanks first, as this increases roll rate significantly.   Always try to go into a fight at 300 mph plus.   If you do this, 9 times out of 10, your opponent will misjudge your E and put themselves in a tough situation, before they realize what happened.   The cannons are nasty when used less 400.   I get to 200 before I pull the trigger myself.   This thing turns well, dives excellent and has excellent E management, along with excellent use of control surfaces up to 500mph.  

When I regularly flew this thing for the better part of 4 years straight, I'd often have no more than 7k of alt coming into a fight.   There isn't a plane I ever "feared".   If you do that, you lost the fight already, IMO.

Also, the Ki-61 is basically a license built He-100, not a Bf-109.  

IT is one of the most underrated planes in the game and is often nowadays seen BnZ'ing, which is why most of those that do, rarely land kills.   They're using the wrong tool from their toolbox.   The Ki-61 is a turn fighter.  

[PJ_Godzilla]

Also, the Ki-61 is basically a license built He-100, not a Bf-109.  

Mascher, With all due respect, this looks incorrect. I'll cite source, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-61 - see Design and Development.

HE100 never made production and featured Heinkel's evap cooling system. I've studied this last some as part of an R&A project here at Ford (no, we won't be producing any split-phase cooling systems any time soon). Noteworthy on the HE: the absence of a rad, enabled by this type of cooling, allowed improved speed w/r 109.

[Masherbrum]

Mascher, With all due respect, this looks incorrect. I'll cite source, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-61 - see Design and Development.

HE100 never made production and featured Heinkel's evap cooling system. I've studied this last some as part of an R&A project here at Ford (no, we won't be producing any split-phase cooling systems any time soon). Noteworthy on the HE: the absence of a rad, enabled by this type of cooling, allowed improved speed w/r 109.

It is a license built He-100, with alterations, hence "basically" in my previous post.

[PJ_Godzilla]

It is a license built He-100, with alterations, hence "basically" in my previous post.

I'd concede "influence" but licensing is very specific. Indeed, most accounts, including the Wiki I cite, state that the KI's airframe design is of Japanese origin. And, if we open it to "influence" I think you'd be hard pressed to say the 109 didn't influence the KI as well. It is factual, of course, that the Japanese did acquire and eval both He100s and 109s and that the Ki's powerplant was a DB601-based unit.

[Krusty]

It's not a license built He100, because the He100 had totally different shapes and angles of the wings, v-stabs and h-stabs.

It's a 100% Japanese design, from the wing shape, the fuselage curve, to the landing gear angle/orientation. The only concession was they took some inspiration from LW desings as to how the engine would be mounted.

[Masherbrum]

forget it.   Back to the OP which NO ONE in this thread has done.

S1n1ster, if you see me on, I'll give you some tips in this bird.   Some would rather offer "opinions in anal retentativeness", than offer help.   IIRC, you're a Swampdragon and Bish.    If you see me on (Karaya), pm me.   I'll either switch or do something.  

But remember this plane does NOT handle like a 109 at all.