Author Topic: The MOSQUITO fighter  (Read 9728 times)

Offline Karnak

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2010, 01:54:22 PM »
Raster,

The empty weight of a Mosquito is indeed higher than that of a P-38.  It was not just made of balsa.
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Offline Scherf

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2010, 02:12:02 PM »
I have a copy of Tech.Note. No. Eng. 316 AVIA6/5817.

Thanks for that Neil. If I can get myself organised this morning, I'll PM you a link which may be of interest, though you may already have it.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline bozon

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2010, 04:33:56 PM »
Raster,

The empty weight of a Mosquito is indeed higher than that of a P-38.  It was not just made of balsa.
I bet that just the second pilot with all his accessories would be a few good hundred pounds. Though de Havilland saved a few lbs on putting less armor around the navigator than the pilot. I remember McIntosh complaining about this (Terror in the starboard seat).

The overall weight of a wood contraction was similar to that of metal for similar strength. That was the claim by de Havilland. However, the wood skin offered  a few advantages to internal structure: since the skin is much thicker and less flexible than aluminum, it requires less support from the internal structure leaving more usable internal volume.

In Mosquito by Sharp & Bowyer the development section gives the impression that while top speed was of interest, de-Havilland were much more concerned about maximum cruise speed - that is the fastest speed sustainable over a long distance. "Speed" for then was how long it takes to make a round trip to Berlin, not where the IAS needle pegs. As a "fighter" it is considered first and foremost a night-fighter. There, interceptions tend to be long and ninja style - the target is un-aware till the last moments. Both as a (night) bomber defender and (to less extent) as the interceptor, planes could not fly all the time on full throttle. Fast cruise was the typical practical speed.

The initial idea for the mosquito came from calculations of maximizing range*payload/trip time. This brought de-Havilland to realize that the optimum is achieved (at the available technology) in a twin engine setup and that defensive turrets reduce this so much that they are not worth it.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2010, 04:57:57 PM »
Some might find this interesting,

"Mosquito Aircraft Production at Downsview"
http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/pm.php?id=exhibit_home&fl=0&lg=English&ex=00000192

Offline RASTER

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2010, 05:16:21 PM »
I expect most of us could calculate the weight of the Mossie given the time. The Mosquito aircraft had a fuselage which because of its aerodynamic configuration allowed it to be larger than other aircraft of smaller size but with equal wind resistance. This shape, then including the wings was without features such as rivets which allowed it to be larger than other aircraft but with equal wind resistance. The Mosquito aircraft also because of its balsa wood cored plywood did not have the "tin canning" effect which is caused by the elasticity of the thin metal sheets on the entire surface but most noticeable on the upper wing surfaces to deform causing parasitic drag. These properties effective reduce the wind resistance signature and its component of drag to a degree making the Mosquito appear to be much smaller than other metal aircraft virtually spilling over with with parasitic drag elements.

The last time I read the total unloaded weight of the Mosquito, I made a few calculations and what do you know, my memory must be bad. It is known that wood per unit weight is often stronger than metal and is used in some aerobatic aircraft because it does not fatigue in an innocuous way. The Mosquito was a true stress skin aircraft. In a metal aircraft the stressed skin is produced using an increased number of metal bulkheads. However, in the Mosquito birch was built over a balsa wood core to produce a thin truss box section with a few longerons built in. The structure then required only a few bulk head sections. This allowed the fuselage to be much larger than a metal aircraft of smaller size but with the same strength and weight. You could calculate this if you had the time. The flaps were also plywood. The exception was the ailerons being made of metal, not fabric.

I would sure like to know how you get 20000lbs unless you fill the plane with water.

 

Offline Karnak

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2010, 05:17:20 PM »
Mosquito FB.Mk VI weighed a little over 14,000lbs when empty.
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Offline Scherf

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2010, 05:31:10 PM »
If you want a 400 mph FB.VI that's lighter than the P-38, you're passing into the realms of fantasy.

If you want to see how to get to 20,000 lbs, go look at the FB.VI CG table I posted on the AH Wiki.

Seriously, none of this stuff is made up.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline RASTER

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2010, 06:20:32 PM »
Why was the Mosquito so fast...add to that the design of the radiators which were protected by the engines. They served to keep the standard Merlin engines cool but unlike other aircraft, they produced lift, not drag. If you CAN'T understand how all these advantages work out to the amazingly high fudge packed speed of 328mph then whats wrong with ya. This was the fastest plane in the world when it was introduced and amazingly as time went on they aircraft got more HP...and while the P38 didnt get the amazing paddle propellors which would have put it in outerspace, the Mossquito did...oh what a fudge yer cooking.

Offline Karnak

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2010, 06:22:01 PM »
Raster,

Have you even read any of Scherf's or my posts?  They may be long, but read them.  They don't lie.
Petals floating by,
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             As she remembers me-

Offline RASTER

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2010, 06:26:27 PM »
Yes I'm working on them considering all the time spend fabricating them I guess I should push along faster. Some good stuff and thanks. While I'm here, note the radiator flaps controled airspeed and they were effective enough when fully opened to help the pilot break out of a dive, this effect is not modeled in AH and perhaps that should be on my wish list. Add to that the use of the guns on the Mosquito would also break it out of a compression dive....and so on. This following illustration must be of the exhaust system.

http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/pm.php?id=display_original&lg=English&fl=0&rd=94042&ex=00000192
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 06:33:27 PM by RASTER »

Offline morfiend

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2010, 07:17:52 PM »
 Please dont feed the trolls.........


    :airplane:

Offline Karnak

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2010, 08:28:19 PM »
This following illustration must be of the exhaust system.

http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/pm.php?id=display_original&lg=English&fl=0&rd=94042&ex=00000192
That is, for obvious reasons, the saxophone ducting that stops both the exhaust flare and the thrust effect that ejector stacks supply.
Petals floating by,
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2010, 08:29:41 AM »
Raster I still cant work out exactly what your point/question is. do you have a specific issue with the AH mossie model?
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Offline sunfan1121

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2010, 09:48:28 AM »
reading rasters post is like bashing my head against a wall.
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Offline lothmog

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Re: The MOSQUITO fighter
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2010, 10:40:54 AM »
Some might find this interesting,

"Mosquito Aircraft Production at Downsview"
http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/pm.php?id=exhibit_home&fl=0&lg=English&ex=00000192

Some pretty interesting info in there, thanks for sharing <S>
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