Tank dweebery

[Jochen]

Found this one by accident while looking info about Panzerblitz installations on Fw 190F-8:

The most celebrated panzer driver of all time is HiTech, the same guy who later designed WarBirds, Dawn of Aces, and Aces High. His exploits, very early in DOS history, had a permanent effect on the T34 until AW3, many years later. Very few folks know the story these days so I figure I'll tell it.

Way back then, AW used the very small maps, much like the one currently used in the FR Fighter Town arena. And the T34 was mismodeled in allowing the main gun to elevate nearly 90^. This meant that at 45^ elevation it could shoot about 8 miles, nearly a full sector. Anyway, HT had 2 computers and split his modem line between them. On 1 computer he played AW. On the other, he analyzed the data. This enabled him to determine both the exact coordinates of any point on the map, such as the takeoff point of an airfield and where his tank was, and let him point the gun to hit any desired point within range dead on. So for a while he often used the T34 as an SP gun, getting, for example, countless vulches just by keeping takeoff points under bombardment. And because AW used the small map, he could keep several fields under fire at once without having to move. Needless to say, this caused a great outcry amongst his nmes and Kesmai eventually shut him down. But in its typical style, instead of fixing the T34 by realistically limiting its max gun elevation, Kesmai put a REAMdomizer on the tank shell, so that HT would no longer know exactly where it would land, and this was so bad at extreme range that it was pointless for him to continue his bombardments.

There matters rested for many years, encompassing all the rest of DOS, AW4W, and AW2 eras. The T34 shell had no in-flight collision checking so could only hit buildings and the ground, and was increasing inaccurate with range, even noticeably so at close range. And the T34 gun could still elevate nearly vertically. But then in AW3 the shells got collision checking to T34s could actually shoot each other. To facilitate this, Kesmai also removed HT's shell REAMdomizer. But thanks to the unrealistic elevation ability, T34s could now also sweep the skies of planes to the limits of visibility. Thus, early in AW3 there was a brief, humorous period where pilots were complaining of being shot down pinglessly by invisible planes and reporting their killers' names as cheaters. Kesmai eventually snapped to what was happening, though, and FINALLY put a realistic limit on the T34's main gun elevation. But for 2 brief, shining moments in AW history, the lowly T34 has been the Scourge of the Skies, the AW Top Predator. And no doubt its day will come again {G}.
 http://people.delphi.com/jtweller/training/opinions.htm

I Dont know if its true or not but fascinating story nevertheless  

------------------
jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski

Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.

Sieg oder bolsevismus!

[hitech]

How it was done was not with a spliter cable what I did was export the terrain into auto cad so I could get ranges, then also made up a tank sight with per pixel ranges.

In a lot of ways jochen, me having fun with the fun with the T34 lead to the creations of both WB and AH.

BTW On the first night, happened to luck out with the 1st shot out of tank .The Muskateriers just at a squad night launch. Anyway 8 kills with 1 shell.

Needless to say they were a tad hostle after that.

HiTech



[This message has been edited by hitech (edited 02-08-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

ROTFLOL HiTech, wtg!!  

One night in WB's, I was flying a FW190A8 witha bomb slung underneath...was gonna use it to drop on some poor sap just launching from the enemy airfield...low and behold, 11 buffs spawned just as I was making my dive...needless to say I had 11 very angry people at me!  

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by hitech:
How it was done was not with a spliter cable what I did was export the terrain into auto cad so I could get ranges, then also made up a tank sight with per pixel ranges.

In a lot of ways jochen, me having fun with the fun with the T34 lead to the creations of both WB and AH.

BTW On the first night, happened to luck out with the 1st shot out of tank .The Muskateriers just at a squad night launch. Anyway 8 kills with 1 shell.

Needless to say they were a tad hostle after that.

HiTech

[This message has been edited by hitech (edited 02-08-2001).]

LOL!!!!!!!!!! That's funnier than hell. I remember AW3 and the squeaking about inviable planes. I always blew it off to a bad connection or something. I was so naive. LOL! HT you spent WAY to much time in front of the computer.   It looks like it paid off though. LOL! That's a great story. I even remember people still talking about this dweeb that had figured out how to "cheat" with the T-34 in AW I. Damn it HT it was you! LOL <S> Great story. The stuff legends are made of. LOL. I'm going to snicker every time I get in a tank now thinking of the 8 mile bombardment.

PS That reminds me can we get a 155mm M40 or a Hummel. WE wouldn't be "cheaters" then like SOME people we know. LOL.


[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-08-2001).]

[funked]

LOL WTFG!!!

[-towd_]

was exportin the terrain not a violation of the tos? i.e. hacking ( but its ok you did it )

[Jigster]

6$/hr to putter around in a tank, and figure out this ranging stuff?

Oh the humanity.


- Bess

[Jekyll]

Oops, double post.. see below for entire message.

[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 02-09-2001).]

[TheWobble]

Its not, never is, never was, never will be.

[Jekyll]

Ain't it funny how times and opinions change.  I was just wondering what the reaction would be from the above 'wtg' crowd if someone in AH managed to derive the same range data for their Panzer or Ostwind, and put it to the same use '1 ping killing' aircraft taking off from a nearby field.

Chances are, the offending player would be dweeb-hunted to oblivion.

When is a 'hack' not a 'hack'?
When is it OK to cheat?

Say (hypothetically of course), our same Ostwind driver decided to fly planes.  Say he was due to be in a H2H duel with a highly regarded pilot:  a Mitsu, or a Hangtime, or a Drex.  Say that same Ostdriver found some way to increase his bullet size to the size of say basketballs, or a small car?

Would we applaud his ingenuity?

[funked]

I don't see anything wrong with using available information to aim your weapon.  Using a precise map and a well-calibrated aiming system (sight) is how they shoot artillery in real life anyways.  

There is a big difference between maximizing the tools offered by the game and altering those tools to get an unfair advantage.

[TheWobble]

I see what ya mean Funked...but a t34 shooting 8 miles....hmmm

[-lynx-]

I cant see how anyone can compare using the idiocy of the sim designers to one's advantage and hacking the software?

From what I've read above HT din't actually do anything to the software. T34 cannon would probably fire a shell further than 8 miles given the elevation. In RL it wasn't a hovitzer - Kesmai "gave" it this capability - where's the HT's "hacking" in it?

BTW, unlike Kesmai in this case HTC have guts to admit to screw-ups (latest multi-bladed prop springs to mind )...

[Jekyll]

 

There is a big difference between maximizing the tools offered by the game and altering those tools to get an unfair advantage.

Glad to hear you say that funked.  So I take it that you would agree that someone who 'altered those tools to get an unfair advantage' is a completely dishonourable person who has no place in a game like AH?  Kinda like the basketball example I gave above?

BTW lynx, just in case you were referring to my earlier post, I made no allegation that the T34 data constituted a 'hack'.  The basketball-sized bullets WOULD of course constitute a hack, and we know what happens to all hackers of flight sims, don't we?



[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 02-09-2001).]

[Jimdandy]

I think a few of you are are missing a funny story for an up tight view. Maybe it wasn't right and I'm sure HT wouldn't like it on here. It wasn't life or death it's a damn game. The story is funny! Lighten up!

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-09-2001).]