"Uber" planes revisited

[Karnak]

For what its worth, late war British stuff continued to fight against the Japanese until September '45.

Sisu

[Westy]

Last note. I would welcome the SPit XIV in this sim as I would any aircraft besides those that never left athe table napkin as some fantasy fighter for the Luftwaffe. See Luft '46 for what I mean.
 
I only posted to help on the  P-47M/N error. Of which more came up.
The P-47 M prototype was ready in 1943. Republic di it as a competitor to eh longer range P-51 and P-38's. NOT the V1. When the call came oput for a faster aircraft to help combat the V1 and faster LW aircraft Republic dusted off thier P-47M and the USAAF was hooked. Then Republic also on thier own developed THAT aircraft into a P-47n with "wet " wings  clipped to bring back the roll loss from the fuel added int the wings.
 The P-47 M could have been in ful blown service in early 44 had the USAAF not been in love with the P-51 so much. The P-47M came along before the P-51 H did and hence the P47M and more so the N did get to play a part in the war. But it was not developed because of the V1 buzz bomb. The P-47M was ready before that unmanne contraption ever went airborne.

You may all resume the Spit XIV/Uber aircraft debate once again  

-Westy


 

[Nath-BDP]

The B.P.F. or British Pacific Fleet had 4 active fleet carriers under the command of Admiral Spruance, C in C of the 5th Fleet during the middle of march '45.  Since the BPF's escorts and battleships were slower than that of their carriers they were restricted to lesser operations, for instance, during the attack on Okinawa the 5th fleet directly supported the landings on the island while the BPF attacked airfields to the south of Okinawa on Skashima which the Japanese used as aircraft staging points.
Indefatigable, Illustrious, Indomitable, Victorious were the 4 HMS on station, April 20th the Illustrious was replaced by the Formidable, due for a refit and its aircrew's required tour of duty long past.

True the British had armored Flight decks but they also couldn't carry as much aircraft as the US carriers, 34 originally untill they were upgraded to 74.

[indian]

Read Pyros most recent post and you will see what is a uber plane.  

Told you I know what it is and I aint telling.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
  1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage

[juzz]

Geez, did this ever get sidetracked...

The criteria for "uberness" is that the plane would adversely affect the balance of the arena.

Sometimes it is obvious, eg: Me 262. Too fast, 4 BIG guns.

With the prop planes it might not be so obvious. Eg: Would a Ta 152H really upset balance? I think it might, but only for 10 minutes at a time.  

[Daff]

"The P-47 M could have been in ful blown service in early 44 had the USAAF not been in love with the P-51 so much."

Sorry, despite being the one of the biggest jug-advocates around, the P-51 was an all-round better suited plane for the ETO.
Yes, the late P-47D and M *could* reach Berlin, but it still meant at lot of fiddling with the engine to make it stretch that long.

Daff

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CO, 56th Fighter Group

[funked]

And don't forget that P-47M's were having engine trouble well into 1945.  I find it doubtful that the "full blown service in early 44" would have been possible with an engine that was still not ready for prime-time in early 1945!

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-19-2000).]

[Daff]

Funked, just be anal;

The problems were in the electrical system, not the engine it self. (Although you could with a good cause argue that it's the same thing )

Daff

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CO, 56th Fighter Group

[Westy]

 So they would have had wiring trouble in 1944. No biggy. How long do you imagine it would have taken to have worked that bug out?    Republic had the plane ready for in 43. That's my point.
 
 An I do acknowlege to the gentleman from the 56th on the higher performance of the 51...in comparison to a  P-47C or D of the same tim  

 -Westy

[Nashwan]

The P47M had engine troubles, not electrical.
"The new M models also suffered a fair amount of teething troubles. The C series engines suffered from high altitude ignition leaks and burned pistons."
Westy, Republic had a prototype flying in 43. That's not the same thing as ready. By your definition, other planes which were "ready" by 1943:
Me262
Spit21
De Havilland Vampire
Arado 234
Do335
Gloster Meteor

[Vermillion]

Eerrr ummmm actually I have read reports that the Me262 could have been ready over a year earlier than it was, due to personal meddling by Hitler, and the mismanagement of the Luftwaffe command development sections.

Very scary notion.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Westy]

 True. But the USAAF  never acted upon the prototype in 43 and it remained in prototype or
"YP" status till it raised eyebrows and was needed in 44. Then it was moved right along very quickly and put inot production as the P-47M and P-47N.
 Kind of like the ME-262.  Galland could have had that bird MUCH sooner than summer of 44 had "the powers that be" acted on it when they should have.

 -Westy

[Nashwan]

Both the 262 and the 47M had engine problems when they did enter service. If they had been rushed into production earlier, they would still have had those engine troubles. There might have been more of them ready when those problems were finally ironed out, but that would have been at the cost of less serviceable planes when they were needed. Would the USAAF have been better served if they had had large numbers of 47Ms in 45 at the exspense of numbers of 47Ds in early 44?

[SnakeEyes]

LLv34... one source lists production of 190D9 as 1805, multiple sources list production near 700.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[juzz]

How do I change the thread title to "Uber P-47's revisited" ???