Ain't nothin like a Jeep

[RichardDarkwood]

Here is a custom 4 door Tracker that can best any Rubicon I've seen in person.  18" Travel Fox Racing shocks all around.   He has since rolled it and instead of Dana 44's F & R, he's going with 60's.   

 

Look at all the mods that the tracker has for you to compare it a STOCK Rubicon.

The Rubicon right off the dealership lot will out perform most 4X4 vehicles and some are calling it the greatest stock off road vehicle ever produced.

I however am not of this thinking on the Rubicon as I only by vehicles that are pre 1973, The Willy's Jeep was IMHO


my .02



Todd

[WWhiskey]

Look at all the mods that the tracker has for you to compare it a STOCK Rubicon.

The Rubicon right off the dealership lot will out perform most 4X4 vehicles and some are calling it the greatest stock off road vehicle ever produced.

I however am not of this thinking on the Rubicon as I only by vehicles that are pre 1973, The Willy's Jeep was IMHO


my .02



Todd

for one thing, its not stock! and some people don't know what they are talking about when they say its the best one ever built
 it is dumb to go pay twice as much to jeep for the same after market parts you can buy and add to a "stock" jeep to make it a rubicon
 the second generation traction controlled  land rover is a much more capable vehicle as far as off road ability, but you wont see them on the trail nearly as often because of the price.
 the new chevy pickups use this same traction control and i have one of them, it is the first one in a long time i bought without positrac, i thought i would hate it, but it turns out, it is more capable than anything i have ever driven "stock"
 while i do like jeeps, the rubicon is an over priced version of most wheelers on/ offroad daily drivers, and they clutter up the trails with kids who's daddy had enough money to buy one for there kids but not enough sense to know better, so we drag them out of the river and watch as they get hauled back to the dealers to be fixed because these people have any idea how to fix them because they didn't build them up to start with!
 it isn't as funny as watching the hummers go in only to be towed out, but it is funny none the less.
 i will hook on to anybodies beat up old river truck or rock crawler for free and lend my tools to help fix it or get in there and help till i have bled as well
but it's gonna cost you when i drag that "stock' hummer or rubicon out of there! lol

[RichardDarkwood]

 i will hook on to anybodies beat up old river truck or rock crawler for free and lend my tools to help fix it or get in there and help till i have bled as well
but it's gonna cost you when i drag that "stock' hummer or rubicon out of there! lol

amen brother amen !!!!





Todd

[AKHog]

The basic problem with this argument is there is no perfect 'off road' vehicle.

Overland, rock crawling, baja running, snow, ice, mud, etc... all require different types of setups. My 100+ MPH prerunner can't make it into half the places my 100/1 ratio locked 4runner could go. Does that mean one is better than the other? Hell no.

As far as going to the dealer and buying something stock, I agree the jeep is pretty good, but by no means the best. But buying a $30,000+ vehicle because of its offroading ability seems silly. For less than 1/3rd of that any decent wrench can build up an older vehicle to be twice as capable. And off roaders who don't know how to wrench on their own stuff are just asking for problems, not to mention missing out on half of the sport.

Personally if I was going to buy a 'stock' vehicle for offroading there would only be one choice in my mind.

I've driven one (6x) on some of the same trails I have the most experience driving my rock crawlers on, and all I can say is holly wow, what a vehicle.

http://www.difflock.com/diffmag/issue14/pinzgauer/technical.shtml

[AKHog]

Where FJs suffer is outward vision (nothing quite equals top down, doors off) and a Independent Front Suspension. Better on road, a major weakness off road.

Not exactly correct.

IFS is fine if build properly. Just check out the link I posted above.

The fastest offroad vehicles built have IFS and IRS.

My prerunner had IFS and there is just no way you could break it doing anything outside a full on front end crash. Of course it wasn't stock .

Only for rock crawling does the solid axle perform better in some situations becuase of the way it naturally flexes. But I've broken several longfields in the toyota solid front axle and never broke anything on my IFS vehicles. But Maybe thats just because I know what my vehicles are capable of.

[AKHog]

the rubicon is an over priced version of most wheelers on/ offroad daily drivers, and they clutter up the trails with kids who's daddy had enough money to buy one for there kids but not enough sense to know better, so we drag them out of the river and watch as they get hauled back to the dealers to be fixed because these people have any idea how to fix them because they didn't build them up to start with!

Well said.

i will hook on to anybodies beat up old river truck or rock crawler for free and lend my tools to help fix it or get in there and help till i have bled as well but it's gonna cost you when i drag that "stock' hummer or rubicon out of there! lol

 

[caldera]

I'll take one of these with a 6.4 liter HEMI thank you.

[AKHog]

    * 45 degree approach and departure angle
    * 100% slope, or until tyres lose traction
    * 27.6 in fording depth
    * Can climb down a 14.2 in wall
    * 43.5 degree side-slope
    * 1500 kg of payload (6x6)
    * 13.2 in of clearance (lowest point when fully loaded)
    * top speed: 68 mph
    * Full engine power available at 2 mph
    * M body type carries 14 people (6x6)

So what other vehicle can you buy stock, for well under $15,000, drive 70 mph to the trails, run 95% of what the most highly modified rock crawlers can run, cross several feet of water, all while a keg and 10 of your friends are in the back? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISbBxqYTQk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKIeaqtPzY

[RichardDarkwood]

   
So what other vehicle can you buy stock, for well under $15,000, drive 70 mph to the trails, run 95% of what the most highly modified rock crawlers can run, cross several feet of water, all while a keg and 10 of your friends are in the back? 

I know of a few places that it could not go that a Jeep would.

Those 10 people better be coughing up some ends on the fuel !



Todd

[Masherbrum]

(Image removed from quote.)

I'll take one of these with a 6.4 liter HEMI thank you.

You don't.   On our 2009 Club Run we had 4 AEV Brutes go on the trails.   Two broke down and one almost had it's bed ripped off.   The AEV guys even said they "needed to go back to the drawing board".  

Not to mention the Engine/Axle combination sucks.   Minimum of Dana 44 up front and either a 44/60 or Sterling 13.5 out back.   If you don't, you'd better haul a trailer with spare axle shafts.

[AKHog]

I know of a few places that it could not go that a Jeep would.

Those 10 people better be coughing up some ends on the fuel !

Todd

Where exactly can a stock off the showroom floor jeep go that a Penz can't?

And they get great gas mileage and good usable power from the 4 cly aircooled engine. Any of the big jeep engines will do way worse.

[Masherbrum]

Where exactly can a stock off the showroom floor jeep go that a Penz can't?

And they get great gas mileage and good usable power from the 4 cly aircooled engine. Any of the big jeep engines will do way worse.

For starters IIRC, they have to be 25 years old or more to be imported into the US.   Now you're talking "reliability and parts" issues.    

[caldera]

You don't.   On our 2009 Club Run we had 4 AEV Brutes go on the trails.   Two broke down and one almost had it's bed ripped off.   The AEV guys even said they "needed to go back to the drawing board".  

Not to mention the Engine/Axle combination sucks.   Minimum of Dana 44 up front and either a 44/60 or Sterling 13.5 out back.   If you don't, you'd better haul a trailer with spare axle shafts.

You're right, it's total garbage.  Next time I shall seek your counsel before deciding what I should want to drive.

[Masherbrum]

You're right, it's total garbage.  Next time I shall seek your counsel before deciding what I should want to drive.

It's your money, buy one.   

[AKHog]

For starters IIRC, they have to be 25 years old or more to be imported into the US.   Now you're talking "reliability and parts" issues.    

So you can't make an example backing up your claim so you change the subject, I see.

The truth is there is very little if nothing that any stock jeep can do that the Penz can't, and there is a hell of a lot more the Penz can do that the stock heep can't.

Reliability issues, please... have you even ever seen the vehicle you are putting down? This thing was designed to stand wartime abuse. And most of the ones you buy in the US have been extensively rebuilt and updated. These are some of the most reliable offroad vehicles you can buy. Go read some overland adventure type's reviews of the penz, people who really understand the meaning of reliable.

Spare parts? Yes, we got those too. T-Lo's offroad used to be right down the street from me in Prescott, he alone has enough spares and incomplete penz to supply the majority of the US penz for years to come, and he is only one of many.

Yea, penz are old unreliable and incapable offroad vehicles when compared to the modern jeep. LMFAO!!