Ain't nothin like a Jeep

[Masherbrum]

So you can't make an example backing up your claim so you change the subject, I see.

The truth is there is very little if nothing that any stock jeep can do that the Penz can't, and there is a hell of a lot more the Penz can do that the stock heep can't.

Reliability issues, please... have you even ever seen the vehicle you are putting down? This thing was designed to stand wartime abuse. And most of the ones you buy in the US have been extensively rebuilt and updated. These are some of the most reliable offroad vehicles you can buy. Go read some overland adventure type's reviews of the penz, people who really understand the meaning of reliable.

Spare parts? Yes, we got those too. T-Lo's offroad used to be right down the street from me in Prescott, he alone has enough spares and incomplete penz to supply the majority of the US penz for years to come, and he is only one of many.

Yea, penz are old unreliable and incapable offroad vehicles when compared to the modern jeep. LMFAO!! 

I never made "the claim".   Todd did.   Attack someone else when you get your FACTS STRAIGHT!  LMFAO!!! 

[AKHog]

I never made "the claim".   Todd did.   Attack someone else when you get your FACTS STRAIGHT!  LMFAO!!! 

Opps sorry... read the posts too fast... my points still stand though.

[Masherbrum]

Opps sorry... read the posts too fast... my points still stand though.

These are IFS.  So any "point" is moot.   Again, there is a limited source of parts for these (not even 12 dealers/suppliers in the US).   

IFS isn't worth the trouble.   Solid Axles F&R is the only way to go, unless you're pre-running, but Michigan doesn't have open desert.   We have boulders, mud and trails.   

[RichardDarkwood]

Can that vehicle go here:

sideways in a one car garage?

http://i44.tinypic.com/o91hs1.jpg


LMAO


Todd

[Ripsnort]

Where FJs suffer is outward vision (nothing quite equals top down, doors off) and a Independent Front Suspension. Better on road, a major weakness off road. Not unlike the Hummer, IFS is always the weak link. Again, like the Hummer the FJ is prone to breaking tie rod ends. My neighbor suffered his third failed tie rod on his 4Runner last fall rock crawling. He keeps a spare onboard with the required tools.

I think you might want consider that the occasional broken tie rods on the FJ's are more attributed to the driving style rather than the IFS. (Personally, I belong to a FJ club with over 100 people and have never hear of a broken tie rod end)  I think you might have formed an opinion (or had your opinion formed by your peers FOR you) that IFS leads to more broken tie-rods. It may be the case in Hummers, but not so for the FJ's.  I mean lets face it, I could match you broken tie-rod for broken tie-rod on Youtube. There are plenty of jeeps out there breaking them too. Most that I've seen is the driving technique, or the stupid line they take.

This guy that I filmed POUNDS his stock (other than the lift kit, and upgraded coil-overs) continously everytime we go out, along with several others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM_vfZaqd7E
(Yes, he highcentered it, but also forgot to lock it in, once he locked it in, he drove right up and over)

The main goal of the Japanese engineer that created the FJ Cruiser was to surpass build quality to that of the Jeep that is in production today. He spent 12 months in the US, doing what? Guess....riding in Jeeps on offroad excursions PRIOR to designing the FJ Cruiser. Now, whether or not he did suceed in surpassing offroad capability to that of the Jeep, well, I let that argument go to the respective cheerleaders of each camp and the professionals that have analysied the crap of these two models head to head (FWIW, they both finish with extremely high scores)  To even mention "H2" or "H3" in the same sentence of an FJ is an insult to say the least. One was specifically engineered and manufactured for "From showroom floor to offroad" capability and the others were strictly for market share.

[Masherbrum]

I think you might want consider that the occasional broken tie rods on the FJ's are more attributed to the driving style rather than the IFS. (Personally, I belong to a FJ club with over 100 people and have never hear of a broken tie rod end)  I think you might have formed an opinion that IFS leads to more broken tie-rods.

This guy that I filmed POUNDS his stock (other than the lift kit, and upgraded coil-overs) continously everytime we go out, along with several others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM_vfZaqd7E
(Yes, he highcentered it, but also forgot to lock it in, once he locked it in, he drove right up and over)

The main goal of the Japanese engineer that created the FJ Cruiser was to surpass build quality to that of the Jeep that is in production today. He spent 12 months in the US, doing what? Guess....riding in Jeeps on offroad excursions PRIOR to designing the FJ Cruiser. Now, whether or not he did suceed in surpassing offroad capability to that of the Jeep, well, I let that argument go to the respective cheerleaders of each camp and the professionals that have analysied the crap of these two models head to head (FWIW, they both finish with extremely high scores)  To even mention "H2" or "H3" in the same sentence of an FJ is an insult to say the least. One was specifically engineered and manufactured for "From showroom floor to offroad" capability and the others were strictly for market share.

Without question, this is correct.   There is ALWAYS a logical reason for "breaks" on the trail.   Some people "want bigger tires" and don't apply common sense to stronger 1-piece axle shafts or moly's.    The FJ's have ALWAYS been a very capable vehicle, which is why Toyota revived the "FJ" name.   It gives the wheeling community another viable, excellent option to take the family on the trails and bond with others who share in the same hobby.   

Rip, ever since you bought "Tonka", I've done nothing but try to get you to "beef that thing up" and I'm a Jeep owner.   I don't "hate" on other brands like some of my friends do.   One of these days, my ZJ will drive out to Lake Tapps and wheel, or maybe end up in Minnesota when you're there.   

[Ripsnort]

Mash, I have too many other expensive hobbies that I pump money into, two of them are ages 11 and 14. Maybe if I get a 3rd vehicle some day, then I'll begin building my version of "The ultimate offroad FJ".  

And as I mentioned before, if you find yourself out here in the PNW, you have a place to stay! I'll take you out to Tahuya for some offroading too! 

[CAP1]

These are IFS.  So any "point" is moot.   Again, there is a limited source of parts for these (not even 12 dealers/suppliers in the US).   

IFS isn't worth the trouble.   Solid Axles F&R is the only way to go, unless you're pre-running, but Michigan doesn't have open desert.   We have boulders, mud and trails.   

if you're gonna take ANYTHING off road, a solid front axle is the only way to go.

[RichardDarkwood]

This is the coolest grill on the planet.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4418093742_aa505073e3_o.jpg





Todd

[SLCR]

I researched and test drove the FJ, Xterra and Jeep.  Jeep was to hard for my 50 mile commute, the Xterra was to plain inside plus I hate the "electronic" transfer case.  I went with the FJ for the all around usability of street driving and off-road capabilities.  Can't wait to start adding a few mods and hitting the trails this spring/summer!

[VonMessa]

The basic problem with this argument is there is no perfect 'off road' vehicle.

Overland, rock crawling, baja running, snow, ice, mud, etc... all require different types of setups. My 100+ MPH prerunner can't make it into half the places my 100/1 ratio locked 4runner could go. Does that mean one is better than the other? Hell no.

As far as going to the dealer and buying something stock, I agree the jeep is pretty good, but by no means the best. But buying a $30,000+ vehicle because of its offroading ability seems silly. For less than 1/3rd of that any decent wrench can build up an older vehicle to be twice as capable. And off roaders who don't know how to wrench on their own stuff are just asking for problems, not to mention missing out on half of the sport.

Personally if I was going to buy a 'stock' vehicle for offroading there would only be one choice in my mind.

I've driven one (6x) on some of the same trails I have the most experience driving my rock crawlers on, and all I can say is holly wow, what a vehicle.

http://www.difflock.com/diffmag/issue14/pinzgauer/technical.shtml
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Didn't think it was supposed to be an argument, and he wasn't really saying how uber Jeeps were   

Like the OP said, "There ain't nothing like a Jeep" 
There is no arguing that statement. 
 He is 100% correct.  There is not, has not, and will not be anything like it ever since the first one rolled up the capitol steps.



If I want to take the doors and top off... I can

If I want to hook up an air compressor and plumb my bumper as an air tank.... I can

If I want to hook up 2nd ginormous Cadillac alternator under the hood to use as a welder to repair my, or other rigs that get broken on the trail....   I can

If I want to hook up a heat-exchanger to my cooling system so I can get a hot shower from a cold water source while camping......    I will

You can get it filthy and it only looks better.

You can mount a snorkel to it, drive across a river that is up to your lap and the water will run right out of the holes in the tub when you come out the other side

It is a man-sized lego set for adults. 

It was the vehicle that won WWII     

Not everyone may think it's the best, but the OP was totally right about one thing.......

There ain't nothing like it   

[AKHog]

It was the vehicle that won WWII     

WW2 is so 1940's.

[AKHog]

If I want to take the doors and top off... I can

If I want to hook up an air compressor and plumb my bumper as an air tank.... I can

If I want to hook up 2nd ginormous Cadillac alternator under the hood to use as a welder to repair my, or other rigs that get broken on the trail....   I can

If I want to hook up a heat-exchanger to my cooling system so I can get a hot shower from a cold water source while camping......    I will

You can get it filthy and it only looks better.

You can mount a snorkel to it, drive across a river that is up to your lap and the water will run right out of the holes in the tub when you come out the other side

Yes and 'I can' and have done all of that in my yota... So?

There ain't nothing like it  

I will agree with that!

[AKHog]

IFS isn't worth the trouble.   Solid Axles F&R is the only way to go...

This comment alone is enough for me to discount anything you ever say about offroad vehicles. Compare your opinion to the US military, who has made their choice clear for years.

 

[Masherbrum]

This comment alone is enough for me to discount anything you ever say about offroad vehicles. Compare your opinion to the US military, who has made their choice clear for years.

 

.....ah so the Humvee "counters all".    I was waiting for this.    Move along Hog, you've hijacked this thread enough.  

Break a solid axle shaft and an IFS side.   Who's PAYING more?   This statement alone negates your opinion on off-road vehicles.