Author Topic: Perk planes in 1.05  (Read 1177 times)

Offline StSanta

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Perk planes in 1.05
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2000, 05:38:00 AM »
Heheheh Hristo  

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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
 

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 10-05-2000).]

Offline Hristo

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« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2000, 05:44:00 AM »
You like the new logo, Santa ?

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Stoickov
9./JG54 "Grünherz"

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 10-05-2000).]

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2000, 06:36:00 AM »
 
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Me; I am back in the G10. I love that plane

LOL!!! StSanta  

This from the guy that was telling me not a week ago, that the G10 was totally useless since the release of 1.04?

Let me give you another hint   Try the gondola's. They take a few sorties to get use too, but once you master them, you will love it!

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

Nath-BDP

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« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2000, 10:22:00 AM »
Verm has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Bf 109G-10 in T9

Verm has 4 kills and has been killed 3 times in the Bf 109G-10 in T8

verm has 7 kills and has been killed 2 times in the Bf 109G-10 in T7

Yes, use gondolas...

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Stab/Jagdgeschwader 77
"Herzas"

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-05-2000).]

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2000, 10:44:00 AM »
Well, Nath I see your attitude hasn't changed much lately.

Tour 9: I have no kills, no sorties period in ANY aircraft. Seems I have been busy doing other things for the AH community.

Tour 8: 4 kills , 2 legit death and 1 death due to a fight with StSanta where we both agreed something was really screwy (warping). So 2/1 KD is really bad huh?

Tour 7:  7/2 = 3.5 K/D wow thats even worse !! Jeez I really need to work on that don't I ?

And I don't even fly for score, I couldn't care less.

True I can't come close to your 300-350 sortie's per tour. But then again, I'm not 16 and have all that free time you do.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

Nath-BDP

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« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2000, 11:16:00 AM »
Wasn't meant as a flame... just that you don't fly G10 often as I do and you're commenting on using gondolas when all the LW people constantly say they are useless against figheters. : )


Offline Westy

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« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2000, 11:35:00 AM »
"all the LW people"

 Oh. Really?

   -Westy

Offline Jigster

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« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2000, 02:27:00 PM »
 
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Originally posted by Westy:
"all the LW people"

 Oh. Really?

   -Westy

Nath forgets that being sucessful in a fighter does not mean they have to get a boat load of kills.

- Jig



Nath-BDP

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« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2000, 10:50:00 PM »
What do you define as being successful in a fighter?

Every hardcore G10 pilot i've spoken with about the G10 think that gondolas are worthless. Point.

Hard to define whos successful in a fighter if they have hardly no kills in it, only way I could judge if they are good in that certain aircraft is if I dueled them. But I can look at say, StSanta's score in G10 and make the assumption that hes good in that aircraft. Whereas with verm I would have to duel him in order to make a judgement or not about his skill in the G10, if he has a small ammount of kills in MA with it.

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Stab/Jagdgeschwader 77
"Herzas"

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-05-2000).]

Offline Hristo

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« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2000, 01:16:00 AM »
Never liked gondolas in G-10. They take away the edge G-10 has against other planes. The only LW type who I know that liked them was Pirado back in early beta.

Instead of gondolas, I would suggest to fly 190. More cannons without so much performance loss.

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2000, 07:12:00 AM »
Hristo, actual loss of performance or percieved loss of performance? I would have to do controled testing, but from my experience, I would bet that the G10 with gondola's outperforms the 190's in just about every way, except for roll rate.

Nath, so because StSanta fly's the G10 more than I do, that makes him correct? If he was so correct, and I was totally wrong, why has he suddenly flip flopped his position in the past week so that he now agrees with me?

Nothing against StSanta mind you, I'm just pointing out the flaw in Naths logic.

And dueling? Who cares. That doesn't make you a good pilot, it means your a good dueler.

I know many excellent pilots who couldn't duel to save their life. They simply fly a style that is the exact antithesis of dueling.

To me, I judge pilots based on their ability in Scenarios. Are they good flight leaders? Do they get their missions accomplished? Do they survive?

In my experience, those "good pilots" like Nath is talking about, get "killed good" in Scenarios.

And why do I focus on Scenarios, you ask? Because everything else is just practice  

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2000, 10:30:00 AM »
heehee Verm
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Nath-BDP

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« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2000, 11:25:00 AM »
 
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Nath, so because StSanta fly's the G10 more than I do, that makes him correct? If he was so correct, and I was totally wrong, why has he suddenly flip flopped his position in the past week so that he now agrees with me?

It makes his opinion on using gondolas on G10 more important to me than yours is.

After talking with StSanta a few times last week and sending him films of me in G10 he decided to take the G10 up again... hes seen the light.

 
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Nothing against StSanta mind you, I'm just pointing out the flaw in Naths logic.

What logic? What has he agreed with you on about the G10? I don't understand this...

 
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And dueling? Who cares. That doesn't make you a good pilot, it means your a good dueler.

Winning duels requires ACM skill, natural ability, thought, experience, etc. Im currently #1 on the dueling ladder, with YOUR logic, I'm a bad pilot, even with my kill/death ratios? lol.

 
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I know many excellent pilots who couldn't duel to save their life. They simply fly a style that is the exact antithesis of dueling.

What do these people you're referring to do? Let me guess, they fly at 30k and sit around waiting for someone to come by or pick on stragglers. Let me tell you that this flying style is pathetic, especially when I run into these types of people and negate their altitude advantage and they end up dead, in a 1v1 situation.

 
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To me, I judge pilots based on their ability in Scenarios. Are they good flight leaders? Do they get their missions accomplished? Do they survive?

I agree.

 
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In my experience, those "good pilots" like Nath is talking about, get "killed good" in Scenarios.

Situations that happen in scenarios or MA end up as 'duels', dueling experience is an important factor in being a good pilot. If you're a good dueler you should sure as hell be a good pilot.

 
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And why do I focus on Scenarios, you ask? Because everything else is just practice

Unfortunatly, scenarios don't happen 24/7.

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Stab/Jagdgeschwader 77
"Herzas"

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-06-2000).]

Offline Vermillion

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« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2000, 01:40:00 PM »
<snipped alot of friendly advice to Nath that would have been taken the wrong way, because he doesn't have the experience to see it in the right perspective>

 
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Situations that happen in scenarios or MA end up as 'duels', dueling experience is an important factor in being a good pilot. If you're a good dueler you should sure as hell be a good pilot.

Again, you couldn't be farther from the truth. Dueling is a focus of 1 v 1 aircraft battles, where you typically fly TnB or at worst E fighting aircraft. You focus on getting angles on a single aircraft in the shortest amount of time, and try to kill them. Its very reflex oriented, and good gunnery skills are a must.

Scenario fighting is a much larger skill set.  

You almost never end up in "duel" situations, where you are fighting a single enemy all alone in the sky.  

In Scenarios, its usually squadron level, or multiple squadron combat with 200 aircraft in the arena at once.

Knowing when to disengage and regroup is paramont. Remember your fighting for two hours, not two minutes.

Flying with a wingman, and knowing how to keep SA in a overloaded environment, is extrememly important. Plus you have to know how to integrate your pair of fighters into the squadron as a whole effectively.

You have to manage fuel loads, and be able to make the bomber escort rendevous on time, and at the right locations. Sure you can drop your drop tanks and engage the first enemy you see at full throttle, but what will that mean in 30 minutes when you didn't make your sweep over the target because your fuel light now that you engaged early? This is a common tactic, would you know how to recognize it or counter it?

On top of this you have to listen to the radio, perform regular sitreps and location reports to your CO, plus keep your flight organized on RW. Total information overload.

And this is just the tip of the Iceburg. I haven't even gotten into how to think strategically & tactically on the fly, in a fluid combat environment.

Its something you can't even begin to comprehend, unless you have been there. Period. Scenario Lights and Snapshots, are great experience, but they are a pale imitation of the real thing.

Dueling types have a tendency to get locked in mortal combat at the first sign of the enemy, and typically get killed by the wingman they never see.  That or they actually "win" their duel, but become seperated from their group, and are ineffective "loners" for the rest of the frame.

Let me leave you with a very good example from real life.

In WWII who were the Squadron and Flight leaders? The great sticks, who could fly circles around everyone else? Or the ones who could LEAD and get the job done?

Who is better known, Chuck Yeager or Bud Anderson?

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 10-06-2000).]

Nath-BDP

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« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2000, 03:30:00 PM »
I'm not disagreeing with you about realism of scenarios, back to point A, someone who flys a certain aircraft more than you do has a better opinion on that aircraft for combat use.

As for dueling, I don't think you've done it enough to have an opinion on what kind of skill it takes, ACM skill is more important than anything. For example, at a co-alt merge, I do an immelman and my opponent does a high g level turn, who is, obviously, more experienced in ACM and who is going to have an easier time shooting down the other person?

There are 2 different types of skill in this game

1. ACM skill, this comes into play when planning tactics for you're side in scenarios. IE Merges, etc. Dueling assists this skill and helps you build it up.

2. Tactical planning, this is relativly useless if you don't have pilots that can get the job done. 'Deep' and realy micro-managed tactics are mostly a waste of time in flight sims, since we have icons which allow you to see enemies at 6 miles away, radar, 'sector' bars etc.  

For instance, take the 'Sturm' tactic used by the Luftwaffe from July 17 1944 onward, they flew in an arrowhead formation to the stern of enemy bombers in heavly armored and armed Fw 190s, this would be suicide against AHs B17s because of the collective firing and the ability for gunners to easily hit the incoming fighter's wing, which should be very difficult given the closing speed and dispersion of rounds and the small height of the wing at this angle.

The Sturm tactics were very successfull and continued untill the last months of the war.

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Stab/Jagdgeschwader 77
"Herzas"


[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-06-2000).]