The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...

[stephen]

Far from a positive post, this line-O-whine has to do with the M4 Firefly's seemingly PERFECT camo, one shot kill ability, and VERY strong frontal/turret armor.

Every other tank in the game makes a trade off one way or the other, be it armor for speed, firepower for mobility etc etc...
No other tank blends in so well with the back ground, and I find it hard to believe that american tanks where the the only vehicles to be almost invisible against a back drop of trees.
The basic color of Mk 4's and Tigers is yellow..., in a game that's entire range of color is green, greener, and greenest, they stand out like sore thumbs, it just doesnt make sense .
The T-3476 is green, but is easily picked out because it's so light compared to the back ground, the same for M3's, M8's etc.

In the history of warfare I cant emagine why no country has made a tank of a similiar color, with the entire vehicles armor comprised of whatever is protecting the Fireflys turret..., I still cant wrap my head around the fact that the turret is made of a steel that is WHOLY IMPENITRABLE by any tank in the game, including the vaunted Tiger, at ANY range.

I've put an 88m round into the flat side of a Sherman, under 200 yards, only to watch horrified as he swung his turret around and punched a hole through my Tigers frontal armor and sent me cursing back to the tower...

This tank is Uber, and its performance (outside of the guns effectivness) seems to be overmodeld... I suspect the majority of players sit mute because after all, it is an american tank (though with a British gun).
The basic color should be changed, the guns speed of traverse should be slowed ( theres twenty feet of barel in a turret designd for a short 75!) and the frontal armor (which even a Mk4 panzer has trouble getting through under 1000yds) should be scaled back. At the very least the perk cost should go up appreciably, a standerd of 20 perks and no less seems fair considering that in base deffence, the vehicle cant be touched.

This IS NOT a vehicle that was seen in anything near the numbers this game reflects, Its under perked, over modeld, and over used.
No one bothers with Tigers anymore....hell, why take a Tiger?

The introduction of this tank without the prior egsistance of its 75mm brother seems unfair considering the order in which the T-34's where introduced...
Honestly, does anyone in a GV fear anything more than A Firefly these days?

Another point i'd like to make...
Do you mean to tell me that an 88mm round would be STOPPED by the spindly limbs on a tree?! perhaps it would be slightly deflected by the trunk, but by a couple friggin leaves!>?
Its nuts, and it allows guys to sit under what ammounts to a bush, at 3000yds firing away with no hope of return fire affecting them AT ALL, because our rounds are plunging at that range.
Perhaps the addition of a code that makes rounds go slightly wild after passing through tree limbs would be appropriate?
I realize that the ground game is considerd secondary by the community, but common..., some of this stuff is just wacked out.

Thanks for the hours of enjoyment, but there is allways room for improvment, <S> all

[lyric1]

I tend to agree with you.

[Tec]

The Tiger and the M4 each have their own merits, but I will agree that the perk disparity between the two is far too great.  Honestly I think they should both be 20 or 25 perks baseline, or at the most the Tiger 5 perks more than the M4.


And I would like to make a prediction in case the perk values ever got adjusted as such..  If the perks are raised considerably on the M4 it won't be long before we start seeing threads about how the T34/85 is underperked.

[stephen]

I think that you might be correct, but that the 85's traverse is VERY touchy, making for a hard shot because the turret speed is so fast, and the fact the the T-3485's turret is capable of being knocked out by almost any AP round in the game 1st shot, thanx for posting.

[lyric1]

And I would like to make a prediction in case the perk values ever got adjusted as such..  If the perks are raised considerably on the M4 it won't be long before we start seeing threads about how the T34/85 is underperked.

True on the T34/85 in regards to perk value. I just wish the Sheman armour modeling was on the T34/85 it just seems very easy to take out a T34/85 with just about anything. Not so with the Firefly.

[JunkyII]

The only thing that keeps the crown on the Tiger over the M4 is its ability to OWN a base with both the vh and ords down. M4 is still very bad against Il2's and B25h's where as the Tiger is not Invincible...but Very hard to kill/damage with just bullets.

[stephen]

I just put two rounds into a Shermans sponson from a t3476, I was at his 9 oclock, and he wasnt damaged...
As I recall the ammo was kept in the sponson, just forward of the turret...

Seriously, now its just getting silly.
Why did the British call them ronsens again?

[caldera]

The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...            to bomb. 

[E25280]

I just put two rounds into a Shermans sponson from a t3476, I was at his 9 oclock, and he wasnt damaged...
As I recall the ammo was kept in the sponson, just forward of the turret...

Seriously, now its just getting silly.
Why did the British call them ronsens again?

Sponson?   

BTW, the front armor of a Sherman is thicker than the T-34s, and the front of the turret much thicker than the Panzer's.  Methinks your problem with the Sherman is that you are basing your expectations on reputation rather than stats.

BTW - I've also put Tiger rounds into the sides of Panzers and done squat only to have them kill me before I could get the second shot off.  There are also plenty of anectotes of M-3s and M-8s surviving more than one would think possible.  Shot placement and (at times a seemingly inordinate amount of) luck are involved killing vehicles in the game, and the Shermans are not the only ones to "benefit" from this at times.

[Bronk]

I think that you might be correct, but that the 85's traverse is VERY touchy, making for a hard shot because the turret speed is so fast, and the fact the the T-3485's turret is capable of being knocked out by almost any AP round in the game 1st shot, thanx for posting.

Stick scaling is your friend.

[Volron]

I've put an 88mm round into the side of an M8 at point blank range, and it didn't do a thing to him (I was dead 9 to him and I hit him just below and behind his turret).  He on the other hand, managed to turret my Tiger right after and later track it (with a little help from another M8), leaving me there to just sit n take hits till he and his buddy finally destroyed me.  I was hoping someone would spawn n help me which is why I didn't just end sortie (one of them would've probably gotten the kill anyways), but it wasn't meant to be.

I have one shot Firefly's with a Panzer at a range of about 1k.   It's pretty satisfying to see the turret on a Sherman fly high into the air after a hit.   Only a couple of them were frontal, but most were to the flank, just below the turret.  If you are wondering, we were taking them out as they spawned, while we were trying to take their Vbase.  I eventually paid the price for ignoring a Sherman, trying to take out a T-34 that managed to slip through.  The base fell very shortly after though.


Guys, as you are all aware, trees are the ULTIMATE killer in AH.  Nothing can stop the Tree!  Behold the power of Tree...for it WILL bring about your downfall in one way or another.  Always remember, the Tree merely awaits the day you will make your mistake, then it will reach out and grab you!   "Nom, nom, nom..."

[stephen]

E25....., wiki M4 sponson.

[KG45]

the GV portion of the game is porked in many ways.

as a dedicated GVer, I have a substantial list that I'm sure HTC is aware of by now if they read the forums.

just gotta play the game around the oddities.

[E25280]

E25....., wiki M4 sponson.

Sorry, this is what I thought of when you said sponson.

[stephen]

Sponson....,generaly referd to as the area above the track, and on the side of a tank.

The sponson was considerd a week point on the Shermans, and recieved additional armor protection in the form of welded steel plates ,in an attempt to better protect the ammunition storage within the hull.

Shermans where generaly considerd week in thier frontal armor, and thought to be at thier worst when fired upon from the sides, though the game doesnt model that particular weekness, it did egsist..., and was taken advantage of by german anit-tank crews, and tank gunners...

There egsists a gap in the realism of damage when the german rides are compared to the american contemporary's.
Most people attribute the American tanks failings to hype, even though records where kept in the Germany  much as in the United States regarding the loss of individual tanks.

The simple truth is that the M4 was pierced MUCH more easily through the side(resulting in the loss of the vehicle through crew casualty's, and ammunition explosion) and at slighter angles of penetration than the German tanks in service at that time.

I have been completly unable to find a recorded instance of a firefly penetrating the frontal armor of a TIGER ANYWHERE on the internet, within 3000yds of the offending Tiger, and I doubt it was anything more than on a rare occasion when it occured, though even the mantlet seems able to be pierced at ANY range by a Sherman.
Please prove me wrong... Later ground pounders<S>