Author Topic: The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...  (Read 6864 times)

Offline OOZ662

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Re: The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2010, 12:06:18 AM »
People asking for penetrable trees fall into the group of people who don't know what they want. You have to give up realism sometimes for playability. If trees and hedges become penetrable, there is no cover at all left on the battlefield from tank rounds or bombs. Strategy would become entirely useless as you could be shot anywhere, anytime and tanks could drive straight through forests unhindered.

The issue with tanks being flipped by trees is a physics engine/collision detection problem. Collision checks are run at a less-than-realtime rate to reduce CPU load. A vehicle traveling fast enough to get inside an object between checks will have "buried" itself inside it; since objects attempt to impart equal force upon each other (ignoring it on the tree's side since it's unable to move), the force multiplies due to the deep impact and the tank is thrown. There isn't really much that can be done about it.
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Offline RTHolmes

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Re: The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2010, 09:24:41 AM »
This armor sheet was to protect against AP rounds forcing them to explode before hitting the actual tank... can someone PLEASE ANSWER WHY!?!?!?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_armour

I always pack some HE for M3/M16s/Jeeps, APs just go straight through. HE splash is useful to bust M8 tyres at high speeds too, then you can finish em off with AP :aok


OOZ trees and hedges shouldnt provide some kind of bomb/projectile shield protection, they should provide cover. you should be able to shoot through foliage, but not see through it (the opposite of what we have now.) ideally anything less than a tree trunk should be possible to drive/shoot through.

interesting explanation of the tank flipping, surely its solvable though? :headscratch:
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...
« Reply #62 on: April 18, 2010, 09:41:05 AM »
Far from a positive post, this line-O-whine has to do with the M4 Firefly's seemingly PERFECT camo, one shot kill ability, and VERY strong frontal/turret armor.

Every other tank in the game makes a trade off one way or the other, be it armor for speed, firepower for mobility etc etc...
No other tank blends in so well with the back ground, and I find it hard to believe that american tanks where the the only vehicles to be almost invisible against a back drop of trees.
The basic color of Mk 4's and Tigers is yellow..., in a game that's entire range of color is green, greener, and greenest, they stand out like sore thumbs, it just doesnt make sense :headscratch:.

The color scheme we have for the German armored was very effective for desert warfare but for AH terrains I think they should default to the grey color scheme also used by the Germans.  Either that or give us some desert terrains.   :aok
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Offline E25280

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Re: The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...
« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2010, 02:45:13 PM »
The only reason the 75mm version was poor was due to gasoline burn rate/explosion and not diesel fuel slow burn (aka why tankers called it a death trap), ammo storage placement, and penetration power.
This is false.  Early Sherman's burning easily was due to poor ammunition stowage, and was remedied by further encasing the ammo bins with glycol and water filled casings. After that, the Shermans were no more prone to brew up than any German or Russian tank.  BTW, the German tanks all ran on gasoline too.

(bringing up the fact as to why the Pnzr IV dies so easily when shot on the sides... This armor sheet was to protect against AP rounds forcing them to explode before hitting the actual tank... can someone PLEASE ANSWER WHY!?!?!?)
The side sheeting you see is only about 5mm thick.   It wasn't much good against a standard large-caliber solid-shot AP round.  What it was meant to defeat were small caliber rounds, essentially the Russian AT rifles.  They also offered protection against shape-charged / HEAT - type rounds, such as are used in bazookas, although that was more a happy accident than something the Germans were counting on.
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Offline OOZ662

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Re: The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...
« Reply #64 on: April 18, 2010, 04:25:00 PM »
(bringing up the fact as to why the Pnzr IV dies so easily when shot on the sides... This armor sheet was to protect against AP rounds forcing them to explode before hitting the actual tank... can someone PLEASE ANSWER WHY!?!?!?)

The side sheeting you see is only about 5mm thick.   It wasn't much good against a standard large-caliber solid-shot AP round.  What it was meant to defeat were small caliber rounds, essentially the Russian AT rifles.  They also offered protection against shape-charged / HEAT - type rounds, such as are used in bazookas, although that was more a happy accident than something the Germans were counting on.

The Striker and Abrams of today's military carry the same sort of thing, but in the form of heavy "grating" that detonates projectiles like RPGs before they can damage the main body of the tank. As you can imagine, a 75mm AP round wouldn't be bothered by said grating in the least. :)
A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline 321BAR

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Re: The M4 Firefly, a perfect tank...
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2010, 09:53:32 PM »
This is false.  Early Sherman's burning easily was due to poor ammunition stowage, and was remedied by further encasing the ammo bins with glycol and water filled casings. After that, the Shermans were no more prone to brew up than any German or Russian tank.  BTW, the German tanks all ran on gasoline too.
i did say ammo storage placement but really? i had heard many places that the germans used diesel instead of gas... well my bad then... but it does not take away from the fact that many GV things must be updated...
1: T34/85 armor thickness is too weak...
2: Sherman perk value needs to be increased
3: tank tree flipping
4: M8 slant armor pinging (possibly needing correction?) but may be correct already
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