Different LW Country Setup?

[grizz441]

From an immersion perspective, I think it'd be really fun to have Axis vs Allies in the Late War.  Of course, all sorts of balance issues arise when you introduce this format but I'm wondering what people's take is instead of the standard 3 chess piece/all planes enabled setup.

[Lusche]

From an immersion perspective, I think it'd be really fun to have Axis vs Allies in the Late War.

Now wouldn't that be an AvA arena? And don't we have one already?

[Kazaa]

Grizz,

The main reason why I fly in the main arena goes as follows: I don't want to be told which plane I have to fly.

It's that simple.

Still, I remember when all the servers, bar Axis Vs Allied and the DA went down. It was a lot of fun to fly my Spitfire against ze Me109; On the same note, RAF vs Luft would never be balanced as long as the mighty few have Spitfire.

[shiv]

It seems that the majority of subscribers don't like limited plane sets.  So to maximize the subscriber base HTC doesn't limit the plane set.

For newer players you see it all the time.  Player A gets shot down in a Pony by a LA7 - so Player A then ups a LA7.  "It's the pilot not the plane" isn't necessarily true for new players, and they certainly don't believe in it.  Consider if Player A kept getting shot down by LA7s and LA7's weren't enabled for him - he'd just figure the game was rigged against him. 

[shreck]

From an immersion perspective, I think it'd be really fun to have Axis vs Allies in the Late War.  Of course, all sorts of balance issues arise when you introduce this format but I'm wondering what people's take is instead of the standard 3 chess piece/all planes enabled setup.

Awesome idea, btw AVA was boring and had same gameplay as the LW arenas when I visited it several times! The Axis vs Allies aspect was very nice though 

[ImADot]

Awesome idea, btw AVA was boring and had same gameplay as the LW arenas when I visited it several times! The Axis vs Allies aspect was very nice though 

So, you think it's an awesome idea, but found the AvA to be boring?  So having the LW arena set up like the AvA would be better...how?  Because it's LWO?

[Shuffler]

So, you think it's an awesome idea, but found the AvA to be boring?  So having the LW arena set up like the AvA would be better...how?  Because it's LWO?

I believe he was refering to game play and the limited plane set in AVA.

[grizz441]

Now wouldn't that be an AvA arena? And don't we have one already?

Well no.  Anytime I see the Ava arena it has 0/200 or 3/200 or something to that effect.  Why is it a barren wasteland?  Because people want to fly where all the action is.  It's cyclic, AvA doesn't have any momentum, LW has ALL the momentum.  I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make a strawman AvA argument, golf clap for making it the first response Lusche!    Not to mention Ava always has only a handful of planes enabled on incredibly small maps.  Not really the same as hundreds of players packed in with all planes enabled now is it?

It seems that the majority of subscribers don't like limited plane sets.  So to maximize the subscriber base HTC doesn't limit the plane set.

Yeah I totally understand that but what I was getting it was that every plane in the game was contained, but each side had either only Axis or Allies.

I'm not trying to advocate this idea, I'm just curious on what your guys thoughts were instead of just taking the 3 chess piece ad nauseum win the war setup we have now as a given set in stone.

[Lusche]

Well no.  Anytime I see the Ava arena it has 0/200 or 3/200 or something to that effect.  Why is it a barren wasteland?  Because people want to fly where all the action is.  It's cyclic, AvA doesn't have any momentum, LW has ALL the momentum.  I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make a strawman AvA argument, golf clap for making it the first response Lusche!  

It'S no strawmen argument at all. It's a valid one.

Players do chose to play LW and not to play AvA. If it were only because "where all the action is" - Why is it that EW is empty? Everybody was playing EW after the arena split, the LW was basically empty. And then the migration started and LW filled up. If numbers are the only reason, it would never have happened, because EW had all the momentum.


ANd yes, all sorts of balance problems do indeed arise when there's only 2 sides and one of them has B-24, Lancaster, B-17, B26  vs Ju88 and Ki-67.

[greens]

No mo 262 for you

[grizz441]

It'S no strawmen argument at all. It's a valid one.

Players do chose to play LW and not to play AvA.

It's not valid at all.  Why would a player choose to fly in a 6 person arena for the sole sake of the AvA aspect of it when a much more dynamic, MMO is awaiting in the LW?  It's entirely illogical to try to compare the two as equal choices and to talk as 'the player base' as a collective entity making the decision themselves.  I'd expect a more thoughtful analytical response from you Lusche.

ANd yes, all sorts of balance problems do indeed arise when there's only 2 sides and one of them has B-24, Lancaster, B-17, B26  vs Ju88 and Ki-67.

Yes this is the main issue I see.  Also the jet problem.  They'd have to design the Meteor to counter.

[Lusche]

It's not valid at all.  Why would a player choose to fly in a 6 person arena for the sole sake of the AvA aspect of it when a much more dynamic, MMO is awaiting in the LW?  It's entirely illogical to try to compare the two as equal choices and to talk as 'the player base' as a collective entity making the decision themselves.  I'd expect a more thoughtful analytical response from you Lusche.

EW and LW had the same MMO dynamics.
EW was full of players. Then they went to LW.

The only reason was having more choices, and the very low numbers and all the action being in EW didn't stop this process.

[Masherbrum]

It'S no strawmen argument at all. It's a valid one.

Players do chose to play LW and not to play AvA. If it were only because "where all the action is" - Why is it that EW is empty? Everybody was playing EW after the arena split, the LW was basically empty. And then the migration started and LW filled up. If numbers are the only reason, it would never have happened, because EW had all the momentum.


ANd yes, all sorts of balance problems do indeed arise when there's only 2 sides and one of them has B-24, Lancaster, B-17, B26  vs Ju88 and Ki-67.

Sorta true.   After the Arena Split, the LW Arena's had the most people, more often than not.   However in Early War you regularly had 100+ people every evening.   Awesome action, fights, etc with some of the best sticks in the game.  Then, it slowly (took about 6 months) was overtaken by the mental midgets and it is what it is today.  

If I want A vs A, I do that in the FSO and Scenario's.

Excellent post Lusche, sums it up perfectly.  

[Steve]

The fact that avA is a wasteland and the LW is full of players is a clear indication that the AvA setup is not preferred

[grizz441]

EW and LW had the same MMO dynamics.
EW was full of players. Then they went to LW.

The only reason was having more choices, and the very low numbers and all the action being in EW didn't stop this process.

I wasn't around for this migration but I have to assume it happened because of the undeniable appeal of LW speed and still being able to fly everything else.  Seems like a no brainer that LW is the most popular.  AvA current setup is insanely limiting on planes, usually only allowing 4 at a time, not fun at all for most unless you're bored out of your mind looking for some 2v2s or something.  

If we woke up tomorrow and the main arena was completely reformatted to be axis vs allies theme with all the gameplay balance issues figured out,  Where do you think everyone would play?  I'd put the farm on LW Axis V Allies.

One thing I need to make abundantly clear is I was toying with the notion of an LW AvA arena where every Axis and Allied plane in the game are enabled on large maps.  This is not the same thing as the current AvA setup, not in the least bit.